Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Danny** · July-27-22, 07:04 AM

What do you mean good! he is debt collector and he's asking Detroit taxpayers a give him a break.

**stasu1213** · July-27-22, 07:15 AM

Great news. Many Detroiters are lead to believe that council is giving Gilbert $60,000,000 cash out of the general funds or something. It's a tax break such as Chrysler and GM had received. Hopefully one or two of the tradeoffs will be Bedrock or Gilbert opening training schools where young Detroiters could go for STEM, vocational, or anything prepping them for the job marjet

**Richard** · July-27-22, 07:53 AM

Do not forget back in 2018

LANSING, Mich. [[AP) — Michigan’s economic development board awarded $618 million in tax incentives on Tuesday for a $2.1 billion development project in Detroit that includes a 58-story building on the site of the iconic former J.L. Hudson department store

https://apnews.com/article/b29eecd0e...a71b48420be81b

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-27-22, 11:10 AM

In America, billionaires always need welfare.

**1953** · July-28-22, 01:28 PM

Thank heavens the council got this done. I'm not a huge fan of handouts to rich folks, but this project needs to be completed and Im afraid failing to pass the tax break would have led to a smaller final project.

1953

**ShadowSoarer** · July-29-22, 08:09 AM

Elevator cores went up today 7/29:
Attachment 42223

**stasu1213** · July-30-22, 06:27 AM

How long did it take to build Comerica Tower?

**1953** · July-30-22, 02:51 PM

This building will get done quickly now that the tax break was approved

**Satiricalivory** · July-30-22, 03:24 PM

Did people relentlessly cry, complain, push conspiracies and wish non-completion on the project when Comerica Tower was built?

**401don** · July-30-22, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Did people relentlessly cry, complain, push conspiracies and wish non-completion on the project when Comerica Tower was built?

It was completed in two years so I doubt it.

**Gistok** · July-30-22, 06:33 PM

Ally Detroit Center, nee Comerica Tower, nee One Detroit Center, was built from 1991-1993 by Gerald Heinz Associates, for $250 million, which included a $25 million UDAG grant [Urban Development Action Grant]. It was originally designed to be one of 2 twin towers on that block, with the parking structure separating them. But Two Detroit Center was never built, and in its' place in 2002 a 2nd parking structure was built.

Architects hated the Flemish Gothic top Post Modern design, even though it was built with an expensive granite facing. The architects were famed Post Modern architects John Burghee and Philip Johnson, famous for their "Chippendale Highboy" designed AT&T Building in New York.

It is 619 ft. tall, with 45 floors, and is Michigan's tallest office building, 2nd tallest of all buildings, after the Renaissance Center's Marriott Hotel [727 ft.]. It has over 1.6 million sq. ft.

Although architects didn't like the building, it won an Award of Excellence in design in 1996... and even though architects derided its' fancy top, the general public is very pleased with the design.

**ShadowSoarer** · July-30-22, 09:28 PM

Let's hope that the pace picks up. Unfortunately doesn't seem like they are working nights like they did pre-May. Don't want to be pessimistic, but even from the block side the first facade was placed around May 28th and the first floor is still not done today and it already August with 5 months left till 2023 not to mention the interior. Sorry about the rant, at least it is getting done at a decent pace now [[at least from the tower).

**Satiricalivory** · July-30-22, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

It was completed in two years so I doubt it.

LOL like as if that matters at all.

People were spinning their bullshit about this site from day one. Actually before construction even started.

**Gistok** · July-30-22, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

LOL like as if that matters at all.

People were spinning their bullshit about this site from day one. Actually before construction even started.

It's not bullshit if Gilbert had not dragged his ass, and by doing so the construction material prices increased so much that it cost the city an additional $60 million... which wouldn't have happened had it been built in a normal amount of time.

**EGrant** · July-31-22, 06:56 AM

Two things can be true - the project is happening [[not some "moving dirt around" conspiracy that's been peddled all over the internet) and it is taking way longer than expected, for numerous reasons.

I wish this thread focused more on the actual construction and updates - even Frankai made a video about not showing videos of Hudson's because it was taking too long. I don't get to go downtown anymore, so seeing updates on a cool project is nice. Rehashing the same argument over and over is boring at this point.

**401don** · July-31-22, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

LOL like as if that matters at all.

People were spinning their bullshit about this site from day one. Actually before construction even started.

Just answering the question you asked.

**southen** · July-31-22, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

It's not bullshit if Gilbert had not dragged his ass, and by doing so the construction material prices increased so much that it cost the city an additional $60 million... which wouldn't have happened had it been built in a normal amount of time.

With how worked up he gets when simple questions are asked he either has a small Gilbert shrine at home or works for the family of companies.

**canuck** · July-31-22, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by southen

With how worked up he gets when simple questions are asked he either has a small Gilbert shrine at home or works for the family of companies.

I think now that the tax thing seems to have been settled, it’s probably going to hit other gears…

I hope for Detroit that this landmark project doesn’t end up characterizing Gilbert as another one in a series of Illitch slash Moroun, if other impediments, disagreeable bumps occur in the future…

**southen** · July-31-22, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

I think now that the tax thing seems to have been settled, it’s probably going to hit other gears…

I hope for Detroit that this landmark project doesn’t end up characterizing Gilbert as another one in a series of Illitch slash Moroun, if other impediments, disagreeable bumps occur in the future…

Regardless of frustrations, complaints or concerns regarding this and other projects I think Gilbert is a long ways from being lumped into that group. As Gistok mentioned, the main reason for needing more money is because of how slowly they moved on the project. They pitched this as a 912 foot tower to get a huge incentive package then quickly dialed it back after getting the breaks. If you look at things objectively you can see why people aren’t as thrilled as they once were despite Detroit still getting a nice building.

**Gistok** · July-31-22, 04:07 PM

It's nice to see how the new Hudson's block and tower fit so nicely into the lower Woodward continuous street wall.

**canuck** · July-31-22, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by southen

Regardless of frustrations, complaints or concerns regarding this and other projects I think Gilbert is a long ways from being lumped into that group. As Gistok mentioned, the main reason for needing more money is because of how slowly they moved on the project. They pitched this as a 912 foot tower to get a huge incentive package then quickly dialed it back after getting the breaks. If you look at things objectively you can see why people aren’t as thrilled as they once were despite Detroit still getting a nice building.

Right. Well, he proved since day one he was on a downtown Detroit agenda. The other clans bought and sat and demolished with very little vision or ambition for the city. They treated the city like their private parking lot. The Hudson block is on its way to a new sense of glory, the fanfare of a bygone age is coming back in improved dimensions, and it could be a really nice, structuring piece of a restored puzzle.

**stasu1213** · July-31-22, 10:47 PM

Gilbert had gotten the ball rolling for the Hudson site as well as the remaining downtown area. He brought retail to his buildings while Maroun just sat on properties. The Illitches and Karmanos had brought Comerica Park and Compuware downtown.

**Burnsie** · August-01-22, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

...the fanfare of a bygone age is coming back in improved dimensions...

Improved dimensions is subjective. I thought the unapologetically massive, multi-facade Hudson's structure was super cool and more intriguing than most newer "sensibly scaled" high rises.

Obviously the Gilbert tower is much more preferable than the parking ramp that was there before.

**Satiricalivory** · August-03-22, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

It's not bullshit if Gilbert had not dragged his ass, and by doing so the construction material prices increased so much that it cost the city an additional $60 million... which wouldn't have happened had it been built in a normal amount of time.

I don't think that's the problem though. The actual issue and reason for the tax break is that Detroit taxes are ridiculously high. They planned the break from day one, the special tax zone was approved in 2017.

They said they couldn't get the bank financing if the taxes weren't lowered, that's clearly a problem with the city's tax policy.

Also nothing about this is a normal project. They had to spend over a year excavating a parking garage, then they kept hitting the original foundation of the Hudson building and then had to rebuild the garage before they even went above ground. It's not surprising it took time.

**Gistok** · August-03-22, 12:30 PM

^ I agree with you that the removal of the parking structure took time, and also that they kept finding problems with "uncharted" deeper old Hudson's foundation issues.

It's just that once they finally got the building going up below ground that things went slower than they usually do. Granted part of that was the complete stoppage due to the Covid quarantine, and afterwards to the trying to plan for the new reality post-covid [going from 912ft. to 682 ft.].

Still, they are not moving as fast as similar [above ground] construction projects elsewhere.