I knew the suburbs were racist!

[Atwater]

How can a "religion" become a race? There are white Jews. There are also black Jews [[Ethiopian Jews) and olive-skinned Jews and Jews of many other colors and ethnicities.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. The Jewish victim here is most likely white. There is no racism involved. It's antisemitism, not racism.

I suspect dcmorrison12 knows that Judaism is not a race. He just likes to stir the pot with inflammatory rhetoric every now and then. But I'm finding the Jesus/Jewish topic interesting.

Jesus most likely had the same skin color as most Middle Easterners living today, which I would describe as "white", and certainly not "black".

WolverinesA2, and Retroit, there's more to it than that. Judaism is indeed a religion, but the Jews are foremost an ethnicity, and secondly, adherents of the Jewish religion. It can be a confusing topic, but if you understand the history, it makes sense.

Originally, the Jews were an ethnic group, a nation, with their own nation-state [[Israel/Judaea), their own language [[Hebrew), and their own culture/religion [[Judaism). Their foremost identity was that of a people- not just of adherents of a religion.

After the Roman-Jewish wars, they lost their nation-state [[which became Roman territory, then Arab, then Crusader, then Turkish, then British, and today is the focus of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict), and due to that and other factors, a slight shift occurred, with the Jews coming to be seen less as a separate nation with their own culture/religion, and more as adherents of a religion. The result is this slightly confusing situation. Adding to the confusion is that anyone of any ethnicity can convert to Judaism, the religion.

Forget about the word "race", because it's incredibly misleading and problematic. But if you think "ethnicity", and consider "racism" to be discrimination based on ethnicity, then, yes, Jews can be the victims of racism. And in reality, it's seemed to me that most people who dislike Jews dislike them more on ethnic grounds than religious ones anyway.

Of course, as was discussed above, today, the Jews aren't even just a singular ethnicity anymore but are really now a collection of mostly related ethnicities [[Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, etc), almost all descended from the same original ancient ethnic group but now slightly different.

As for Jesus, yes, he did most likely have the same skin color as most Middle Easterners today, but I wouldn't describe that as "white". The Jews weren't "white", or "black", but more olive-skinned, and would have been clearly distinguishable from northern Europeans.

Lastly, regarding black Jews, some such groups descend from ancient Jews who ended up in Africa and intermixed with ethnic Africans, and other groups were completely ethnic African groups who converted en masse to Judaism. Genetic analysis points to Ethiopian Jews being of the latter case.

[mjs]

The myth of being "favored or chosen" is debunked with an easy test..are we all not equal in G-d's eyes?

I believe that was the Jews main contention with Jesus. The Jews said that they were God's chosen people and you had to be born a Jew to be a choosen one. Jesus said that people became God's chosen people by accepting him so gentiles could choose to become God's favorite and hypocritical Jews could fall out of God's favor. Once he accused the high priests of being hypocritical, thus not having God on their side, they marked him for death. However, being under Roman rule, they needed the Roman government to commit the actual murder. The Roman's viewed them as all being a bunch of religious nutbags having a religious spat and didn't care who was right or want to get involved.

Atwater, thanks for the history and yes, I can see where I might be getting a skewed perspective of what a typical Jew is like. I, as well as many others, really should take a college class on World Religions.

[Danny]

The suburbs are racist! I even knew that Livonia is racist. Some suburbs pratice ethnic intimidation for over 60 years. White folks just protecting their "Pleasantville, Levittownesque cookie cutter neighbohoods." But the white folks who are living in the suburbs have to know that people of color are living at a house next door and they must get along with them. White folks have no other option but to accept people of color. No more " Whites Only or No Coloreds" signs on the glass entrances of their mom and pop retail stips.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Lay off the Jim Crow attitude for Neda Soltani's sake.

[Thames]

This is a stupid thread subject on so many levels. Can't wait for the shitstorm to start on this one. DC, I get your sarcasm, but is this really necessary other than to just start another vicious thread about racism? I am sure there are better ways to utilize Lowell's pixels.

I feel it is necessary, Detroiters are plastered with labels constantly, so I figured I'd insert a little humor to the mix

Still waiting for the humor.

[elganned]

Of course, as was discussed above, today, the Jews aren't even just a singular ethnicity anymore but are really now a collection of mostly related ethnicities [[Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, etc), almost all descended from the same original ancient ethnic group but now slightly different.

As for Jesus, yes, he did most likely have the same skin color as most Middle Easterners today, but I wouldn't describe that as "white". The Jews weren't "white", or "black", but more olive-skinned, and would have been clearly distinguishable from northern Europeans.

Lastly, regarding black Jews, some such groups descend from ancient Jews who ended up in Africa and intermixed with ethnic Africans, and other groups were completely ethnic African groups who converted en masse to Judaism. Genetic analysis points to Ethiopian Jews being of the latter case.

Let us also add another wrinkle into this mix, that being the case of the Khazars. They were a semi-nomadic, most likely Central Asian group of peoples who inhabited the Ukrainian steppes in the 8th-10th centuries--think "cossack-like". They converted en masse to Judaism sometime in the 8th century and were later conquered by the Rus [[Swedes who had settled in the Kiev area and gave rise to the name "Russian"). Many of the "ethnic" Jews of Russia and Eastern Europe trace their ancestry to these peoples, making them Jews in religion but "Russian" in ethnicity.

Things are not always as simple as we would like.

[Atwater]

Let us also add another wrinkle into this mix, that being the case of the Khazars. They were a semi-nomadic, most likely Central Asian group of peoples who inhabited the Ukrainian steppes in the 8th-10th centuries--think "cossack-like". They converted en masse to Judaism sometime in the 8th century and were later conquered by the Rus [[Swedes who had settled in the Kiev area and gave rise to the name "Russian"). Many of the "ethnic" Jews of Russia and Eastern Europe trace their ancestry to these peoples, making them Jews in religion but "Russian" in ethnicity.

elganned, the '"ethnic Jews of Russia and Eastern Europe' that you mention are the Ashkenazi Jews that I mentioned- the same ethnic group that comprise most of today's Jews, including most American Jews. I agree with your post, except that the Khazar contribution to the Ashkenazi gene pool appears to be much smaller than some once thought. The majority of the Ashkenazi gene pool appears to be Israelite, with the Khazar contribution being minor.

Those Khazars who did convert, yes, were ethnically "Russian" and only religiously Jewish, but that was over 1,000 years ago, and that portion long ago mixed with the base of the Ashkenazi community, so there wouldn't be any Jews alive today, nor for many centuries, in that circumstance.

Today, anyone of fully Ashkenazi ancestry would be mostly of Israelite descent, and maybe they'd also have a few Khazar ancestors up there as well [[at the least, they'd have *some* type of European ancestry). Of course, there are modern day Russians who convert who would fall into the category you described, but they wouldn't be Khazars!

[rb336]

Go to Ethiopia. Plenty of dark skinned Jews there...

just an interesting side note:

a group did some DNA of various Cohen groups [[if i'm not mistaken, I think that was originally a priestly clan) in various parts of the world and found the same genetic mutation [[not present in other Jewish populations) in every Cohen population - black, white, asiatic, etc.

[bigjimhp]

The Jews mentioned in the old testament are not the the so called jews of today, you can add time and so called DNA twist the facts, misrepresent the truth, Jesus was a dark[[olive) skinned moor[[modern day black), made in the Creators image as was the original man, not mankind. This explains why the Black[[moor) womans origin can't be explained, the moorish man only to say he comes from her, why the Moor has every element on Earth in their body. The Brown Yellow and Black people are the original Moors and owners of the Earth. History is told from a Eurocentric view. Europeans have not been on Earth for a thousand years, anthropology doesn't support this.

[elganned]

That's about as garbled a view of anthropology/archeology/history as I think I've ever heard.
*shrug* Maybe the Moors owned the Earth at one time, but they must have made some bad investment moves 'cause we own it now.

[4real]

"I knew the burs were racist"
I didn't know a inatimate object could have subjective feelings.
So does this mean that they no longer are racist if they 'were'
I should start suing people in detroit for racially intimidating me.
I could become very wealthy that way

[elganned]

"I knew the burs were racist"
I didn't know a inatimate object could have subjective feelings.
So does this mean that they no longer are racist if they 'were'
I should start suing people in detroit for racially intimidating me.
I could become very wealthy that way

Your threat to sue me is racially intimidating! I want some money! Now!

[rb336]

The Jews mentioned in the old testament are not the the so called jews of today, you can add time and so called DNA twist the facts, misrepresent the truth, Jesus was a dark[[olive) skinned moor[[modern day black), made in the Creators image as was the original man, not mankind. This explains why the Black[[moor) womans origin can't be explained, the moorish man only to say he comes from her, why the Moor has every element on Earth in their body. The Brown Yellow and Black people are the original Moors and owners of the Earth. History is told from a Eurocentric view. Europeans have not been on Earth for a thousand years, anthropology doesn't support this.

yes, it does. any "centric" view is bound to be wrong. the semitic peoples of 2000 to 4000 bce were largely the same as the semitic peoples living today. LOTS of archaeology and forensic science supports that. don't know what crackpot pseudo-science source gave you your BS

[Downtown diva]

The religion is bogus, in the sense that many small changes and edits were made to help the religion fit in, and in many cases, control a people.

I prefer not to read too much into a king's version of anything that happened, personally.

the jewish religion is bogus Sean?

really?

How so?