Detroit fireworks marred by at least two unexplained stampedes

[ccal]

Only a fool would make a stupid broad brush comment about over 600,000 people, 99% of which they haven't even met.

Only a fool won't take their blinders of and ignore something so obvious. Black people are the reason for the nonsense that happened downtown at the fireworks. If you're offended by my bluntness then I suggest you get thicker skin.

[ccal]

Only a fool would make a stupid broad brush comment about over 600,000 people, 99% of which they haven't even met.

If you can, please cite where other ethnic groups have came to an event [[autoshow, festival, fireworks show) and caused disruption where people felt unsafe, made the news in the last 15 years in Detroit. I'll make it even easier for you, just give 1 example.

[313WX]

If you're offended by my bluntness then I suggest you get thicker skin.

I'm not offended by your bluntness, rather I'm shocked at your obscenely high level of stupidity.

[marshamusic]

If you can, please cite where other ethnic groups have came to an event [[autoshow, festival, fireworks show) and caused disruption where people felt unsafe, made the news in the last 15 years in Detroit. I'll make it even easier for you, just give 1 example.

My friends who live in neighborhood and saw this, felt very unsafe:
http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...n-opening-day/

[ccal]

I'm not offended by your bluntness, rather I'm shocked at your obscenely high level of stupidity.

Stupidity? Prove me wrong. You can't. Facts please.

[ccal]

My friends who live in neighborhood and saw this, felt very unsafe:
http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/0...n-opening-day/

Somehow I don't think those people warrant all the security at events within the city. What about the other 364 days of the year?
Also, maybe we should have volunteer patrol cars driving around with yellow beacons like we do on October 30th because clearly this is on par with Devils Night.

[canuck]

Stupidity? Prove me wrong. You can't. Facts please.

Stoopid in three easy steps;

1-You take a brush,
2-Youse dip it in black paint,
3-You make sure to give broad strokes.

Meathead method.

[313WX]

Prove me wrong.

It's not worth the time or energy.

[ccal]

It's not worth the time or energy.

I thought so. If you want to have a open honest discussion then lets do that, instead of you making immature responses to my post.

[313WX]

...If you want to have a open honest discussion...

There's nothing open or honest about broad brushing 600,000+ Detroiters.

[ccal]

There's nothing open or honest about broad brushing 600,000+ Detroiters.

You keep throwing out this 600,000+ number as if I said all Detroiters, show me where I said that. If you want to have discussion about what I've actually posted rather than what you have chose to interpret what I've posted then this back and forth is pointless.

[313WX]

You keep throwing out this 600,000+ number as if I said all Detroiters, show me where I said that. If you want to have discussion about what I've actually posted rather than what you have chose to interpret what I've posted then this back and forth is pointless.

Don't hurt yourself trying to back pedal...

[ccal]

Don't hurt yourself trying to back pedal...

I'm not. My post are on here plain as day,nothing changed. Black people are the reason the nonsense happens at events in Detroit like the the fireworks last night and year,before and year before and year before.

[corktownyuppie]

I'm not. Black people are the reason the nonsense happens at events in Detroit.

"The people who cause the nonsense are Black" is different from "Black people are the cause of the nonsense."

I'm presuming you mean the former even though you keep stating the latter. Knowing the difference between the two is crucial, because the solution lies in understanding the problem. If you really mean that "Black people are the reason for the problem", then the solution must follow to be "eliminate Black people since they cause the problem".

If you actually mean that "The people who cause the nonsense are Black", then the solution must follow that we better discern who the problem people are and become better at preventing them from destroying the event.

In any case, my take on this is twofold. There are the people who cause the problems with violence. Then you have the people who cause the problems because they are quick to panic and encourage others to panic.

Any solution we propose must address both of these issues.

[Goose]

I heard someone in Windsor got their foot stepped on... it resulted in a polite "im sorry" and each went on their way.....

[Zacha341]

"Shaniqua"? OK, when that specific term and similar comes forth I know the deal...... did my browser take me to another kind of site/ blog?

Pulpit pimps can get a few more greenbacks in the collection plate screaming about Ford's racism in taking away 'their' family event, and those who want nothing more than to enjoy an evening of illuminations can do so without worrying about the ripple effect of DeCarlos and Shaniqua's beef.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

"The people who cause the nonsense are Black" is different from "Black people are the cause of the nonsense."

I'm presuming you mean the former even though you keep stating the latter. Knowing the difference between the two is crucial, because the solution lies in understanding the problem. If you really mean that "Black people are the reason for the problem", then the solution must follow to be "eliminate Black people since they cause the problem".

If you actually mean that "The people who cause the nonsense are Black", then the solution must follow that we better discern who the problem people are and become better at preventing them from destroying the event.

In any case, my take on this is twofold. There are the people who cause the problems with violence. Then you have the people who cause the problems because they are quick to panic and encourage others to panic.

Any solution we propose must address both of these issues.

Good points in distinguishing between the two.

[royce]

What I have noticed over the last few years regarding the fireworks is that security is making it harder to view the fireworks along the riverfront. One year I had discovered a nice place to view the fireworks behind the main post office along Jefferson. Others soon picked out spots along the same area. No incidents of violence occurred. The next year when I went to the same area, the police had posted signs saying, "No Parking." That's the last year that I attended the fireworks. For whatever reason, the police didn't want people back there. Now, if these same people can't go there and the police restrict access to Hart Plaza, then where are people going to go? What happens now is that you get a larger group of people vying for the same limited spots. That can quickly create chaos because now people are frustrated and some begin to vent their frustrations through their behavior. In years past, I never saw the surge of people at the north end of Woodward and Jefferson that I do now because before everyone could go over to Hart Plaza. If it was too crowded there, people went elsewhere. Now, because of security reasons, the police are holding that crowd back. Frustrated at not being able to get to Hart Plaza, this group seems to get angry and cause the chaos. If more areas were left available to watch the fireworks, then maybe the chaos wouldn't happen. Too much crowd control could actually be what's causing the problems.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Grand points Royce. It has just gotten to be too much to navigate. I've been doing a long distance watch with binoculars. Now I just watch on TV...

[SWMAP]

That's just what happened with the Bob-Lo boat excursions. The police ruined everything there, too. Pretty soon the only people who wanted to pay money for a 2-hour ride with kids who bullied other passengers, foul-mothed threats, Daisy Duke minimal clothing, noise, drama and babies.
It was the police that made all that no fun and so the owners threw it all in.

[Honky Tonk]

now i just watch on tv...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............

[Zacha341]

ROTFL! I know HT, I just be the queen of boring, indeed...... but it ain't so bad... fairly large screen, surround sound. Hey!!!

I need to find a friend with a river facing high rise. Working on that.... when you get yours invite us all over next year. I'll bring a dish to pass!

Back in my daring days I used to actually ride my bike into the thick of all that to watch the works!

[Honky Tonk]

ROTFL! I know HT, I just be the queen of boring, indeed...... but it ain't so bad... fairly large screen, surround sound. Hey!!!

I need to find a friend with a river facing high rise. Working on that.... when you get yours invite us all over next year. I'll bring a dish to pass!

Back in my daring days I used to actually ride my bike into the thick of all that to watch the works!

I did too and more, Detroit Fireworks junkie! It truly makes me sad, the turn of events, and what seems to be becoming the "norm" in and around Detroit. No one seems to have any values anymore, nor does anyone seem to care about the people around them.

[detroitsgwenivere]

What I have noticed over the last few years regarding the fireworks is that security is making it harder to view the fireworks along the riverfront..... If more areas were left available to watch the fireworks, then maybe the chaos wouldn't happen. Too much crowd control could actually be what's causing the problems.

This is exactly what I told cityhall yesterday.

When I attempted to walk up to Hart Plaza after work on Mon., Jefferson was closed at 7:45pm to pedestrian crossing. As people began quickly approaching the intersection the more angry they became. Not only because most of the late comers are trying to hurry down from work and can't get there any earlier, but because there is no prior announcement regarding the time of the street closure. So you have families carring stuff and people who took 4 buses on a 90 degree day just trying to find a patch of ground past the skyline [[and you cant see squat if you arent past the skyline). Not to mention the families that become separated when a few leave to get a drink or use a non-porta-john. By the time the fireworks started, Hart Plaza was half empty, and the intersection of WW and J was packed like a sardine can full of bored kids and aggravated adults and teens. Throw rude, aggressive, and high strung police into the mix and you now have the makings of a catastrophic event. The police are setting this event up for failure.

As far as the demographics go, the crowd at the intersection was 65/35 black folks. But my spidey streetsense told me it was easily 90/10 hood folks [[of all colors), some of which dont leave a six block radius unless patronizing a Walmarts. This is the biggest outdoor event of the year that doesnt have an entry fee, one of the only times everyone in town regardless of income has an opportunity to get front row seats to view the most spectacular show in town. Don't assume just because lots of black folks are around when the shit hits the fan that it's a black folks problem. It's more like a hood rats problem.

I know that some of you [[predictably) feel like we need MORE security, but the police presence in the CBD was already extremely heavy, zillions of them walking and riding around Campus Martius, the Woodward corridor and Jefferson. Even the Border Patrol is in on the act now. If more police was the answer we'd already have the safest event of the summer. But, it isn't is it?

IMHO, I dont think closing down the riverfront to the majority of Detroit resident is the answer, I think we should be making it more accomodating. Jefferson should be opened wide up to all foot traffic until 9pm, and the Riverfront and Belle Isle Conservancies need to work with Law enforcement to create a more accessable, safe and maybe even profitable event. People should be allowed to put their blankets down on eastbound Jefferson up to the median, the EM vehicles can easily use westbound Jefferson as a two-way. More vendor permits should be allowed, increasing the access to affordable food and drinks, and to things families might need in a pinch. Maybe a shuttle line to take the elderly and disabled back and forth from the riverfront [[Dan??), and some street performers to entertain the young people [[Dan??)[[GM??) [[Illitch??) Come on guys...

People on this site are always saying that the problem with Detroiters is that we set our expectations low, therefore resulting in low outcomes. Why should the Fireworks be an exception to this logic?

[guito13]

IMHO, I dont think closing down the riverfront to the majority of Detroit resident is the answer, I think we should be making it more accomodating. Jefferson should be opened wide up to all foot traffic until 9pm, and the Riverfront and Belle Isle Conservancies need to work with Law enforcement to create a more accessable, safe and maybe even profitable event. People should be allowed to put their blankets down on eastbound Jefferson up to the median, the EM vehicles can easily use westbound Jefferson as a two-way. More vendor permits should be allowed, increasing the access to affordable food and drinks, and to things families might need in a pinch. Maybe a shuttle line to take the elderly and disabled back and forth from the riverfront [[Dan??), and some street performers to entertain the young people [[Dan??)[[GM??) [[Illitch??) Come on guys...

This is the problem right here. People in the area always wanting handouts. "You have money, give me some!" You nor I deserve ANYTHING from anybody. They should charge admission to the prime spots [[i.e. crowded), not a source of revenue, but as a "hoodrat/idiot" filter.

Regardless of the crowd control situation, no civilized person should shoot a gun into a crowd. I know for a fact there were 2 shootings as a good friend was there and is in a position to know such things. I trust this person when they tell me what happened.