Do black/minority homicides matter in this country?

[brizee]

If you make legal gun ownership nearly impossible or so restrictive as to nullify any legal reason to own a gun legally...only criminals will possess guns. There are, as you say, 300 million+ guns in this country... banning guns, making certain guns illegal, making certain types of ammo illegal isn't going to do a damn thing but satisfy the need to "do something".

And again it's all about supply side regulation. There will always be a hunger for guns, or anything else that gives predators an unfair advantage.

Drugs are a disingenuous analog, seeing as how they're much easier to smuggle in varied ways, and can be manufactured and even grown domestically

Like I said finding a legal, or illegal gun? Ok. Go find me a box of grenades if you really want to impress.

And this is all hot air anyway as long as the NRA and the politicians they fund are actively castrating any organisation or law that attempts to curb, control, or even study gun violence in this country. Aint shit gonna change, and gun rights really aren't the point of this thread anyway.

[Shollin]

How can anyone make the Newton shooting about race? Anytime 20 children are shot dead in the middle of class, that will be news regardless of ethnicity and there would be a call for gun laws. Aren't they even renaiming the school after the Hispanic teacher who died? Part of the problem is everyone wants to make things about race.

[bailey]

And again it's all about supply side regulation. There will always be a hunger for guns, or anything else that gives predators an unfair advantage.

Drugs are a disingenuous analog, seeing as how they're much easier to smuggle in varied ways, and can be manufactured and even grown domestically

Like I said finding a legal, or illegal gun? Ok. Go find me a box of grenades if you really want to impress.

Make them illegal and see how easily they get smuggled and assembled locally. There are 300 million guns sloshing around the US... that is a shit ton of spare parts.

Grenades are of course harder to come by as they are strictly limited and rare. However, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Grenades are "not commonly used for self defense" and thus bans on them are constitutional. The bans you are advocating are unconstitutional. There is no "supply side" solution that would pass constitutional muster.

And this is all hot air anyway as long as the NRA and the politicians they fund are actively castrating any organisation or law that attempts to curb, control, or even study gun violence in this country. Aint shit gonna change, and gun rights really aren't the point of this thread anyway.

Well again, blaming the NRA is a convenient way to avoid any examination of a culture wherein life is cheap and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot someone when one feels "disrespected". No law is going to stop that from happening . Just like no law is going to stop a crazy person from going on a killing spree.

[brizee]

The same day of the Connecticut massacre, in China a man went on a knife attack on 22 young children and 1 adult.

Not a single fatality.

I am completely 100 percent for legal, responsible gun ownership.

But to say that the gun culture, and gun business quite frankly, as implementd in America, isn't one of the most significant factors in the high homicide rate rings incredbily false. Much like Coulter's "demographics problem" already linked.

Guns may not kill people, but they make it very very very very very easy for people to kill people.

[ccal]

The question is, why is it a problem now? What makes those kids any different then the others that have died because of gun violence? Are those kids lives more valuable than the innocent bystanders that are shot and killed everyday in urban communities?

How can anyone make the Newton shooting about race? Anytime 20 children are shot dead in the middle of class, that will be news regardless of ethnicity and there would be a call for gun laws. Aren't they even renaiming the school after the Hispanic teacher who died? Part of the problem is everyone wants to make things about race.

[bailey]

I am completely 100 percent for legal, responsible gun ownership.

But to say that the gun culture, and gun business quite frankly, as implementd in America, isn't one of the most significant factors in the high homicide rate rings incredbily false. Much like Coulter's "demographics problem" already linked.

Guns may not kill people, but they make it very very very very very easy for people to kill people.

And again, no law implemented today that can pass constitutional muster would stop or lower the level of gun violence in Detroit or whatever urban poor area of your choosing. Laws only work if people abide them. I'm not going to dig into the Google but I'd be willing to bet serious money that the vast majority of the gun deaths in Detroit were perpetrated using an illegally possessed gun. short of institution of martial law and a house by house search for weapons, nothing is going to change until the ghetto culture changes.

[canuck]

You touched on an important point when you wrote about movie depictions, brizee. I think a lot of the problems of ghetto violence have to do with the promotion of violence within particular parameters.

The antihero has become the hero in the AA and Latino communities for a long time, a viable alternative to the mainstream, especially when the mainstream media projects images and values narrowly attributed to these communities over and over and over and over...

This used to be the case for a lot of poor whites during the depression years also, the Derringers, the Bonnie Parkers and Clyde Barrows were also taken for heros in a time when folks were being dispossessed by banks etc... There is a culture of violence that permeates american society and especially the poor dispossessed classes. So on a cultural level, guns would have to be less an iconic treasure than they are now. Ditto, the arrogant self destructive tendencies promoted again and again and again...

I worked on a movie last year with enough machine gun fire to last me a lifetime. It was about guess what..? A hostage taking in the White House...

[canuck]

"nothing is going to change until the ghetto culture changes".

Yep Bailey, just what I meant.

[kenp]

If Trayvon Martin was white nobody would even have given a shit

[ccal]

If Trayvon Martin was white I don't think what happened, would have happened.

If Trayvon Martin was white nobody would even have given a shit

[brizee]

If Trayvon Martin was white nobody would even have given a shit

I'm sure this was nothing but a brainless fucking troll but...

You did know that Trayvon's death originally wasn't even going to be prosecuted and George Zimmerman was set to go on with his life like he stepped on a cockroach?

You also know that it was a white man that initiated the petition to get his death looked into more thoroughly?

Or are you just flinging feces?

[kenp]

No need to get poopy Ms Brizee, your so full of anger it seems.

You asked if Black homocides matter in this country, Trayvons did. At least it was for half a year.

[brizee]

No need to get poopy Ms Brizee, your so full of anger it seems.

You asked if Black homocides matter in this country, Trayvons did. At least it was for half a year.

My so full of anger?

And I'll calm when you stop posting dumb shit.

[rb336]

I'm basically going to disagree with the whole premise of this thread. A LOT has been made of the increasing murder rates in various cities in the national press. The difference isn't racial - it's that we have become inured to it. yeah, many people don't care if a bunch of gangbangers kill each other. people would probably have the same reaction if the mafia and aryan brotherhood started shooting each other. Individual murders by the mob never got much press, unless it was a don. Chicago gangland murders never got much press in the days of capone, except for the st valentine's day massacre. same logic applies here.

[ccal]

See....its that sweeping generalization right there that has me shaking my head. All murders in urban communities aren't all gang bangers killing each other, everybody that gets killed by these low lifes aren't criminals either.

I'm basically going to disagree with the whole premise of this thread. A LOT has been made of the increasing murder rates in various cities in the national press. The difference isn't racial - it's that we have become inured to it. yeah, many people don't care if a bunch of gangbangers kill each other. people would probably have the same reaction if the mafia and aryan brotherhood started shooting each other. Individual murders by the mob never got much press, unless it was a don. Chicago gangland murders never got much press in the days of capone, except for the st valentine's day massacre. same logic applies here.

[night-timer]

I'll explain the difference:

In Newtown, CT - the killings all happened within a few minutes, at the same place, by the same gunman, thus classifying it as a massacre.

In Detroit, the murders happen a few a day, and generally are young adults killing other young adults [[but not children).


I think it's quite a stretch to try to turn this into a race issue.

There is a difference between little kids getting massacred at school and drug dealers or rival gangs getting violent with each other. The circumstances, and the parties involved, are clearly very different, hence the level of media coverage after Newtown happened.

Having said that, yes, violence commonly encroaches into the mainstream, not just amongst gangbangers.

Public awareness exists of crime and homicide rates in certain black communities, but I'm not sure it's practical or likely for the media to report on every incident that occurs throughout the US.

[Zacha341]

Yes. And we don't see Rev. Jackson or Sharpton coming to the D regarding this or all of the recent teen murders either. Not to their 'advantage' fo make an appearance for these incidences... apparently.

When little Aisha goes missing from the west side, do we hear anything at all?

[iheartthed]

No need to get poopy Ms Brizee, your so full of anger it seems.

You asked if Black homocides matter in this country, Trayvons did. At least it was for half a year.

Except it was initially ignored. Martin's parents were ignored by the media for a month. The Sanford, FL police department had just about forgotten about it by the time it hit the media. If the story had not gone viral among minority communities on the internet then George Zimmerman would likely still be living his life as if nothing had ever happened.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I'd say it doesn't matter. Minorities get killed every day, and most of the time, the coverage is 2 or 3 paragraph's long in the bottom right hand corner of the page.

[rb336]

See....its that sweeping generalization right there that has me shaking my head. All murders in urban communities aren't all gang bangers killing each other, everybody that gets killed by these low lifes aren't criminals either.

The ones that get airtime aren't, but take a good look at all the coverage of murders in Detroit last year. the coverage was extensive. the difference isn't racial, it's sensational. One person gets killed - everyday occurrence, literally. One guy kills 5, 10, 15, 20... much bigger story. when they are children, even more. It is the nature of the crime, not the race, that determines coverage.

[wolverine]

Duplicate post

[wolverine]

I think there is appropriate outrage when an innocent child or senior or something like that gets shot and it comes to light. I also think people couldn't care less when gangbangers or drug-pushers get shot, and many think that it's actually a good thing.

Ultimately, I think that many people that feel that way can't or don't care to make the distinction and just lump innocent and not-innocent people together as "the Southside" or "Detroit."

This is basically it. Most people north of Roosevelt in Chicago don't blink much of an eye at the gang issue. Over half of homicides are gang related...and pretty much gang vs gang crime. You can hire all the police you want, but getting to the root of the problem is important. Get homeless kids help and more programs to keep kids out of gangs. I don't think there is enough of this in the community.

[Papasito]

An interesting perception after Sandy Hook:

There is no doubt that the Sandy Hook school massacre was an unspeakable tragedy but I doubt seriously that had the murdered children been killed at an inner-city school, Presidential Obama would be holding a conference using children as a dramatic prop for his dictatorial gun control agenda. Nor would there be hysterical politicians calling for tighter gun control laws nor column after column from leftwing writers exploiting the tragedy. The sad truth is that none of these demagogues care one bit about murdered black or Hispanic children unless the perpetrators of these crimes are white.

According to The Chicago reporter, "Since 2008, more than 530 youth have been killed in Chicago with nearly 80 percent of the homicides occurring in 22 African-American or Latino community areas on the city's South, Southwest and West sides." Ho-hum to that say the lackeys in the media who refuse to report Chicago's disgraceful murder rate which is greater than the military deaths in Afghanistan because it's in a city run by Obama's former Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel.

http://www.irishexaminerusa.com/mt/2...oof_democ.html

Quite honestly, if the 2nd amendment can be attacked, watered down and ripped apart, all the amendments can be. What's next? The 1st amendment? Do you think the media would be rolling over for Washington DC if this Constitutional assault was directed at the 1st amendment and not the 2nd?

Well, the 1st amendment could be next.

And about the bastardizing of the NRA - the NRA has been called every name in the book by anti 2nd amendment politicians & media pundits. They seem to forget the NRA is an assembly of law abiding American citizens who have formed a group to protect their Constitutional rights, and have a Constitutional right to do so.

So when you attack a group like this, aren't the attackers the fringe radicals?

But that takes away from the theme of this thread.
And I guess my point would be:
Thousands of innocent minority children are killed as a result of gang violence, homicide, and brutal crime, yet they get no attention.
Some white kids get killed at a posh school in a fancy area, and the country is outraged.

[firstandten]

An interesting perception after Sandy Hook:


http://www.irishexaminerusa.com/mt/2...oof_democ.html

Quite honestly, if the 2nd amendment can be attacked, watered down and ripped apart, all the amendments can be. What's next? The 1st amendment? Do you think the media would be rolling over for Washington DC if this Constitutional assault was directed at the 1st amendment and not the 2nd?

Well, the 1st amendment could be next.

And about the bastardizing of the NRA - the NRA has been called every name in the book by anti 2nd amendment politicians & media pundits. They seem to forget the NRA is an assembly of law abiding American citizens who have formed a group to protect their Constitutional rights, and have a Constitutional right to do so.

So when you attack a group like this, aren't the attackers the fringe radicals?

But that takes away from the theme of this thread.
And I guess my point would be:
Thousands of innocent minority children are killed as a result of gang violence, homicide, and brutal crime, yet they get no attention.
Some white kids get killed at a posh school in a fancy area, and the country is outraged.

I could make the point that the way the 2nd amendment has been hi-jacked by the fringe right and gun lobbyists we really don't know what the true intent of that amendment is. The 1st amendment is pretty straightforward, however the 2nd the way the folks framed it leaves lots of room for interpretation. When you have a situation like that, the best way to understand that amendment is to understand what was going on during that time that would influence the framers of that amendment. In other words put it into some kind of context. The NRA and others have created a narrative of that amendment that ignores the historical context. So before you accept the wording of that amendment as the gospel truth we need to look at the context http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...amendment.html

[rb336]

here is Hamilton's statement about militias:

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_29.html