Bicyclist Attacks Driver, Gets Shot, Dies

[kryptonite]

Also, in my eyes, if you can shoot to incapacitate, it is preferable to to killing.

I think it's absurd to speculate what someone 'should do' if being assaulted. People are different and their thresholds differ. The eyewitnesses saw the bicycler punching the driver of the truck. And from what the withnesses said and the photos corroborate, the bicycle hit the truck, not the other way around.

the county prosecutor's office is investigating.

Personally, I have never owned a gun, but if a person does own a gun, and they are being assaulted, who can say how any person should react? They may use the weapon, they may not use it. It's 'your bad' if you attack someone. And it may be the last time you do that, as in this case.

[Wesley Mouch]

IF you or another person are being threatened with imminent death or sexual assault AND there is no other recourse [[such as running away or hitting back) AND the other person is armed, then I think use of a gun is justified. Also, in my eyes, if you can shoot to incapacitate, it is preferable to to killing.

I think we are pretty much in agreement.

The only difference to me is that I wouldn't required that the 'other person is armed'. I'm OK with deadly force if, 1) you have reasonable cause to think they might be armed, or 2) you have reasonable cause to think that they are capable of serious harm to you.

If you are being viciously attacked by an unarmed person who refuses to stop repeatedly, you have the right to respond with lethal force in my book. But I sure expect the danger to be clear. I hope this was the case in this situation.

[Gannon]

"Regardless of what you think, he's the victim of his own aggressive foolishness."

fixed that for ya

[guito13]

IF you or another person are being threatened with imminent death or sexual assault

Agreed.

AND there is no other recourse [[such as running away or hitting back)

Again, Agreed.

AND the other person is armed, then I think use of a gun is justified.

Guns Kill. Fists Also Kill. Knives Also Kill. Baseball Bats Also Kill. A Sock Full Of Quarters Also Kill. Kicks Also Kill. I think you get my point. Many items are capabable of killing, maming, incapacitate, etc.

Also, in my eyes, if you can shoot to incapacitate, it is preferable to to killing.

Have you ever shot an animal that could potentially kill you? I have. I have also see what can happen when you shoot an animal and simply injure it. It PISSES it off an puts you in an EVEN WORSE situation. I believe this behavior would be similar in an enraged human attacker.

If I am being attacked by a person and in danger of my life I am NOT going to chance further harm to myself/loved ones/other innocents by tring to aim for a smaller area [[i.e. Leg, shoulder, arm) I am going to aim for center mass. If I miss the smaller target the bullet could is more like to find an unintended target and I am in even more danger.

[jolla]

You are glad someone is dead because they are an asshole.

No, I'm not glad he's dead because he was an asshole, but because he as an asshole who hurt someone.

I am glad he died. If he would pummel a man in the head, we don't need him.

[splake]

Have you ever shot an animal that could potentially kill you? I have. I have also see what can happen when you shoot an animal and simply injure it. It PISSES it off

Lol, I hope you are a better shot against an unarmed attacker than you are against an unarmed animal that wasn't attacking you.

[kryptonite]

Lol, I hope you are a better shot against an unarmed attacker than you are against an unarmed animal that wasn't attacking you.

An unarmed attacker is still an attacker. The person being attacked is supposed to ask the attacker to stop and give them a hug?

[Gannon]

If I am being attacked by a person and in danger of my life I am NOT going to chance further harm to myself/loved ones/other innocents by tring to aim for a smaller area [[i.e. Leg, shoulder, arm) I am going to aim for center mass. If I miss the smaller target the bullet could is more like to find an unintended target and I am in even more danger.

I've ONLY trained triple-tap since I bought my Glock. Was almost kicked out of Target Sports in Royal Oak because of it, since they frown on rapid firing on their indoor range. The manager thought I was one of two feds who were downrange...who happened to wander down and talk with me after I made a nice 3.5-inch chest/2.5-inch head grouping, emptying my 15-shot magazine in triples, each from rest [[again, since they wisely will not allow shooting from draw outside their very carefully-controlled CPL training classes) at 30 feet.

I still have that target...even took a picture of it because I was so amazed, and needed to remember meeting those two. One was FBI, who said his friend could not identify himself...so I imagine he was NSA or something similar. Whatever.




I don't ever want to use this talent/gift...but the Universe saw to it that I got my Glock back from the W.Bloomfield police after it was stolen from my trunk, after nearly six years...and that only after I decided to pray about it. Curious, huh?!

Cheers

[jcole]

Agreed.



Again, Agreed.



Guns Kill. Fists Also Kill. Knives Also Kill. Baseball Bats Also Kill. A Sock Full Of Quarters Also Kill. Kicks Also Kill. I think you get my point. Many items are capabable of killing, maming, incapacitate, etc.



Have you ever shot an animal that could potentially kill you? I have. I have also see what can happen when you shoot an animal and simply injure it. It PISSES it off an puts you in an EVEN WORSE situation. I believe this behavior would be similar in an enraged human attacker.

If I am being attacked by a person and in danger of my life I am NOT going to chance further harm to myself/loved ones/other innocents by tring to aim for a smaller area [[i.e. Leg, shoulder, arm) I am going to aim for center mass. If I miss the smaller target the bullet could is more like to find an unintended target and I am in even more danger.

I said incapacitate, not wound. If you have taken the courses necessary to get a cpl or ccw you should know how to hit someone where it will stop them, not just piss them off. At least stop them long enough so you can get away.
I still maintain that shooting someone should be the last resort. If you didn't have a gun, I don't think you would sit still while someone punched you in the head. You would either retaliate or try and escape. First thought shouldn't be shoot to kill.

[Gannon]

Now that I look at it, I completely missed the heart zone. Ignore the hot sauce stains.

[splake]

An unarmed attacker is still an attacker. The person being attacked is supposed to ask the attacker to stop and give them a hug?

No, the person pulling a trigger should hit what their aiming at.

[kryptonite]

No, the person pulling a trigger should hit what their aiming at.

Duh. I think that's what the truck driver did.

[kryptonite]

Now that I look at it, I completely missed the heart zone. Ignore the hot sauce stains.

Dude, I saw the .jpg file. Impressive. I swear I won't be running into your vehicle with my bike.

[splake]

Duh. I think that's what the truck driver did.

Well the rest of us are certain that's what he did.

[kryptonite]

An update from the News-Herald. Maybe the byciclist had some history of violent behavior and some history with the police dept.

Link to the full article: http://thenewsherald.com/articles/20...mode=fullstory

[guito13]

Lol, I hope you are a better shot against an unarmed attacker than you are against an unarmed animal that wasn't attacking you.

I never said that I was the one who injured the animal opposed to kill it.

[Gannon]

Dude, I saw the .jpg file. Impressive. I swear I won't be running into your vehicle with my bike.

If you did, you'd never know I had a weapon. It will not ever see sunlight [[outside a range) unless someone has to die.

You run into my vehicle, I'd only be concerned if you were ok. Then we'd get a beer.

Cheers!

[Kevgoblue]

I still maintain that shooting someone should be the last resort. If you didn't have a gun, I don't think you would sit still while someone punched you in the head. You would either retaliate or try and escape. First thought shouldn't be shoot to kill.

Bingo.

At the end of the day the question will be was this driver in fear of eminent danger of death or great bodily harm, and I would guess he'll be granted a "yes", or at least get a pass.

I don't buy the argument that had he not shot the biker he may have sustained severe long lasting head injuries. That is not the case for 98% of people who get in fistfights. I would also believe that if he is able to unholster his firearm, aim and fire he could have just have easily dropped the vehicle back in drive and removed himself from the situation.


Most likely he will not be charged.

[guito13]

I said incapacitate, not wound. If you have taken the courses necessary to get a cpl or ccw you should know how to hit someone where it will stop them, not just piss them off. At least stop them long enough so you can get away.
I still maintain that shooting someone should be the last resort. If you didn't have a gun, I don't think you would sit still while someone punched you in the head. You would either retaliate or try and escape. First thought shouldn't be shoot to kill.

I did take the CPL class and they TEACH you to try to remove yourself from the situation first. If you have no way to remove yourself and are down to the FINAL option of using your firearm they TEACH you to aim for the center of mass [[A.K.A. The center of the chest).

[guito13]

If you did, you'd never know I had a weapon. It will not ever see sunlight [[outside a range) unless someone has to die.

You run into my vehicle, I'd only be concerned if you were ok. Then we'd get a beer.

Cheers!

Better lock up the gun before you start drinking my friend. There is that .02 BAC limit thing :-)

Ill have a bell's hopslam please.

[Gannon]

Curious to learn the truck driver is a retired Marine.

This may not change things...but at least proves he had training.

For the Military [[and FBI and the like, if I'm not mistaken) sidearms are close combat...they train to get off 3 shots within 10 seconds at 10 feet. No need to go any less, so with that he showed restraint.

He had no leverage, was getting pummeled. 50/50 the truck even HAD power windows, and I'm not sure Ford had the anti-injury sensors on their power windows in the Ranger. It is old enough that it probably had manual windows...but I cannot remember if my old Windstar had the safeties on its power windows.

Guy had a prior felony that was plead down...I'm betting this shooter walks.

We've had an odd rise in shootings in the news lately...last night a household on the west side erupted into a gunfight. Two dead.

This morning, a store owner kills the party four guys had planned after breaking into his joint. Well, he killed one of the perps.


What'll come first? Perps climbing the learning curve of life, or will they be made extinct by extreme lead poisoning?!

[guito13]

What'll come first? Perps climbing the learning curve of life, or will they be made extinct by extreme lead poisoning?!

Hope for the former, prepare for the latter. It seems like some people on here are failing to do the second part.

[Gannon]

Better lock up the gun before you start drinking my friend. There is that .02 BAC limit thing :-)

Ill have a bell's hopslam please.

Thanks for the reminder, I threw that in as a non-sequitur twist.

Yeah, they'll all be secured.

I do most of my drinking in homes now anyways...very seldom am I out on the town any longer. It helps having a really great place where I can entertain. We're planning on a keg for the basement...but it'll likely be darker brew. Porter or stout. I'm trying to get the rockstar over at the Livery to brew another of those fabulous Bourbon-kegged wonders of his that he had at the Summer Brewfest in Ypsi...OMG.

[Islandman]

I did take the CPL class and they TEACH you to try to remove yourself from the situation first. If you have no way to remove yourself and are down to the FINAL option of using your firearm they TEACH you to aim for the center of mass [[A.K.A. The center of the chest).

Center mass is your upeer/lower torso combined, not the center of the chest.

[guito13]

Center mass is your upeer/lower torso combined, not the center of the chest.

The center of the chest is included in the center of mass area which is the point I was trying to make. They teach you to aim for the area on the body that gives you the highest chance to hit your target and, hopefully, stop the threat.