I-94 Expansion Project [[Roadway to Detroit's Future)

[DetroitPlanner]

Excellent! Agreed.

What's Detroit's worst urban freeway? Where do you see the urban fabric torn apart?

I will answer this a different way. The most fixable are the stubs of the Lodge and I-375 S of I-75.

The least damaging was the Southfield because it was always planned to be there. I -96 in Livonia [[Schoolcraft) also follows this template.

[Detroitnerd]

I will answer this a different way. The most fixable are the stubs of the Lodge and I-375 S of I-75.

The least damaging was the Southfield because it was always planned to be there. I -96 in Livonia [[Schoolcraft) also follows this template.

Just to be clear, by "fixable" you mean "sensible to remove"?

[animatedmartian]

Out of curiosity, here's Detroit pre-freeways.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/serv...mi=140&trs=142

The Lodge and I-94 are partly constructed.

I've been using I-94 lately to get into downtown and I've felt it's a great way to do it aside from using Gratiot. However, the congestion is sort of annoying. Also, the redundancy of the Lodge and I-75 is very annoying.

But looking at the 1950s map, I can see how planners went with the "get traffic off of the surface streets" methodology.

If it were up to me, I-75 and the Lodge would merge to become a singular freeway. OR eliminate I-75 altogether and have Van Dyke become a freeway all the way out from 94/ Gratiot and then have 75 form a T-interchange at 696. OR straighten it out from Livernois and follow Gratiot for a bit until it meets Van Dyke and then head northward from there.

I really don't like the current 375 interchange and how the interstate makes pretty much a 90 degree turn at 20 mph.

I'd eliminate the Jefferies and instead have it split from the Lodge at Wyoming and meander towards Schoolcraft into in present route away from the city.

I'd move the terminus of the Lodge to Grand River or Verner Hwy [[or a straightened out 75).

Of course that's all fantasy and I don't expect that we'd spend trillions of dollars to reconfigure the freeways in that fashion and I don't really know how well traffic would flow through those routes. But if it's a necessary evil, less is better and that's just my idea.

I'm at least really glad they never put a freeway on the waterfront like so many other cities.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm at least really glad they never put a freeway on the waterfront like so many other cities.

If there's a reason for that, it's likely because the shoreline was already occupied by the exigencies of the 19th century: railroads and factories on the waterfront.

[Wesley Mouch]

...<snip>...Frankly, simply removing freeways wouldn't be enough. Usually, when you remove a freeway, it is part of a larger plan. Such a plan will usually provide transit so people move closer to amenities, thereby fostering density. It should probably begin in the center of the city and, as investment and development follow a growing transit network, you could work outward and gradually convert them into boulevards until the freeway surrounded the city instead of cleaved it.

This makes perfect sense. It took 70 years to get here. So it is a long-term plan. So were the freeways. It was well-intentioned -- but we are smarter now. We've seen what they do to cities.

Might be cool to use the old sunken roadbeds for commuter rail running underneath. After all, we already have the cut; why not leave some infrastructure down there before we cover it over?

That's simply brilliant. I doubt anyone will fund that investment -- sensible or not. It would cost more than zero dollars.

A smaller vision of even sunken corridors to cross downtown more the size of the Dequindre cut would be quite feasible. A lot of cities have these types of express roadways. They're not freeways, but just 'shortcuts', usually driven by truck traffic. There'll always be a need for a truck to go from, say Corktown to Lafayette Towers. Better to have them take a short-haul, narrow cut than on the surface. A surface street like Houston in NYC also cuts neighborhoods too.

Of course, these are all fantasies...

No. They're not fantasies. They're good ideas. Keep thinking, and keep talking.

[DetroitPlanner]

Just to be clear, by "fixable" you mean "sensible to remove"?

You can have a clean slate to work with that won't impact international or interstate trade too much. One way to fix could be to remove, another could be to reduce. Other ideas may be more suitable.

[Brian1979]

I don't understand why I-75 never gets mentioned for widening. It gets really heavy between 8 and 16 that's a 10 mile stretch of bumper to bumper traffic every single day and that's only 3 lanes in each direction too. I-75 is weird like that though it goes from 4 lanes in the city of Detroit to 3 lanes after 8 Mile to 4 lanes after Square Lake all the way to Joslyn, then 3 lanes all the way to I-475 then down to 2 lanes until 23 comes in, then to 4 lanes between I-475 and Bridgeport, back down to 3 lanes until you get to the other side of the Zilwaukee Bridge, then back to 4 lanes between I-675 and Wilder, then down to 2 lanes for most of the way up to the Soo, it might be 3 lanes in certain areas. The Zilwaukee Bridge is 4 lanes in each direction too, then it cuts off the right lane as exit ramps on both sides of the bridge.

I don't know why I-75 is 4 lanes in each direction in some rural areas. I'm thinking it has to do with the northbound traffic on summer Friday's and southbound traffic on summer Sunday's, but why not have it 4 lanes in each direction from Detroit all the way to Bay City then?

The Lodge is 3 lanes each direction too, should we widen the Lodge now too?

[313WX]

I don't understand why I-75 never gets mentioned for widening.

Oh believe me, L. Brooks Patterson has not hesitated to shove that proposal in our face when the opportunity comes about.

That said, I would be in favor of shrinking I-75 south of I-94. It's way too wide for no good reason [[downtown is no longer the only center of commerce in the region).

In fact, we should also shrink I-96, and eliminate the express/local lanes. Again, there's no good reason for it to be that wide anymore.

[Wheels]

Oh believe me, L. Brooks Patterson has not hesitated to shove that proposal in our face when the opportunity comes about.

That said, I would be in favor of shrinking I-75 south of I-94. It's way too wide for no good reason [[downtown is no longer the only center of commerce in the region).

In fact, we should also shrink I-96, and eliminate the express/local lanes. Again, there's no good reason for it to be that wide anymore.

What are you thinking?
How or why would you shrink a freeway?
What would this accomplish?

[Gistok]

Yeah.... lets spend spend money to make the freeway smaller so that we can have what? More empty land? Or maybe they can widen the service drives... that idea seems to be going over pretty well on this thread....

[DetroitPlanner]

What would this accomplish?

1. increase congestion.
2. slow down raffic due to idling vehicles.
3. fill Detroit's neighborhoods with tailpipe pollutants.
4. waste a ton of gas due to idling on a congested freeway.
5. on the plus side in another 60 years when they go to re-reconstruct it, it will cost less. Of course the EIS will recommend a widening.

[iheartthed]

If I-94 truly is congested enough to warrant an expansion then why hasn't MDOT implemented HOV lanes yet?

[Wheels]

If I-94 truly is congested enough to warrant an expansion then why hasn't MDOT implemented HOV lanes yet?

Ya and then they could hire a butt load of Police to write tickets just to justify there existance.

Just like Livonia!

[iheartthed]

Ya and then they could hire a butt load of Police to write tickets just to justify there existance.

Just like Livonia!

I'm sure that's cheaper than the several hundred million that it will cost to add the lane.

[Gistok]

If I-94 truly is congested enough to warrant an expansion then why hasn't MDOT implemented HOV lanes yet?

Perhaps for a freeway heading downtown HOV lanes would make more sense. But for a crosstown freeway, I doubt it. For all we know MDOT may have studied that idea and found that there aren't enough travelers going to the same destinations to warrant it.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm sure that's cheaper than the several hundred million that it will cost to add the lane.

Detroit is different.

[iheartthed]

For all we know MDOT may have studied that idea and found that there aren't enough travelers going to the same destinations to warrant it.

Even if that were the case then the answer isn't to reinforce the behavior by adding more lanes.

[313WX]

What are you thinking?
How or why would you shrink a freeway?
What would this accomplish?

I take it you've never driven I-75 south of I-94 [[4-5 lanes wide in each direction) or I-96 before.

Both are relatively empty, and heavily underutilized.

If we're calling in our debts. we might as well eliminate infrastructure which costs money to maintain that we're not using.

[Detroitnerd]

If we're calling in our debts. we might as well eliminate infrastructure which costs money to maintain that we're not using.

If that's the case, might as well disband SEMCOG too.

[Brian1979]

Oh believe me, L. Brooks Patterson has not hesitated to shove that proposal in our face when the opportunity comes about.

That said, I would be in favor of shrinking I-75 south of I-94. It's way too wide for no good reason [[downtown is no longer the only center of commerce in the region).

In fact, we should also shrink I-96, and eliminate the express/local lanes. Again, there's no good reason for it to be that wide anymore.

I'm in favor of making all the freeways within the Grand Blvd loop into boulevards except I-94 going through and I-96 and making I-75 go through on that route.

I would love to see no more Chrysler Freeway south of the Ford, no more Fisher Freeway from the Jeffries all the way to Gratiot, no more Lodge south of the Ford. Make them all into boulevard's and rename them Hastings Street [[Chrysler), Vernor Highway [[Fisher) and Sixth Street [[Lodge).

[Detroitnerd]

I'm in favor of making all the freeways within the Grand Blvd loop into boulevards except I-94 going through and I-96 and making I-75 go through on that route.

I would love to see no more Chrysler Freeway south of the Ford, no more Fisher Freeway from the Jeffries all the way to Gratiot, no more Lodge south of the Ford. Make them all into boulevard's and rename them Hastings Street [[Chrysler), Vernor Highway [[Fisher) and Sixth Street [[Lodge).

How interesting it would be to reclaim I-75 and rename it Hastings Boulevard!

[Brian1979]

How interesting it would be to reclaim I-75 and rename it Hastings Boulevard!

I've been thinking of another idea, what if you could take the service drives and make like the southbound Chrysler into Hastings Street and making the northbound Chrysler into Cameron Street or the southbound one could be Oakland Street since it looks like Oakland goes directly into the path of the southbound service drive and using Hastings for the northbound side.

Then making the old ditch into a commercial district with loft style living. I think it would have to break up a little bit though due to the bend in the Chrysler at the Fisher interchange it would go directly into Brewery Park. But reconnecting downtown with the surrounding neighborhoods by removing the freeways I would love it.

I don't think there is any reason for freeway's to exist this close to a downtown area anyways, the boulevards could handle the traffic for downtown along with Woodward, Gratiot and Grand River.

[Brian1979]

Massive accident on I-75 northbound in Bay County tonight. up to 60 car pileup north of the M-84 exit. This stretch is at 4 lanes in each direction, I was just wondering if they considered widening this portion of I-75 anytime soon.

[Gistok]

I believe the only 4 lane stretch of I-75 in Bay County is where the M-10 Freeway does a cloverleaf towards Claire MI. Maybe they should just straighten out the cloverleafs....

[Brian1979]

Excellent! Agreed.

What's Detroit's worst urban freeway? Where do you see the urban fabric torn apart?

I would have to go with the one's I want removed and made into boulevards. The Chrysler south of the Ford, the Lodge south of the Ford and the Fisher from the Jeffries to Gratiot.