CityLoft by Somerset Collection on Woodward

**iheartthed** · July-28-11, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

We should be glad that they are even making an attempt, no matter how small.

Why should people be glad? Because they opened an upscale flea market downtown and guaranteed their name in the press free of charge for a few days per month?

**StubbyStone** · July-28-11, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Have you ever seen the inside of some of these buildings? These are 60+ year old building most haven't been used for over 20 years. They're dirty and require alot of work and rehab. Somerset never had to come down there. We should be glad that they are even making an attempt, no matter how small.

I'm all about gratitude and being thankful for things and truth be told, i am grateful for the effort... but please, this was not worth all the hype and the city honestly deserves better... I'm not being bitter, I'm being real... Detroit needs to put out a better product and sometimes it's like the D expects you to settle for something just because it's the D and they know you love it... but that's not fair... it's like taking advantage of a family member just because you know they have to love and forgive you...

places like Avalon and Slow's, they put out a great product and people come from all over because it's a great product, not because it's the D... that's what the D needs... put out something that someone from anywhere would love... Cityloft was FAR, FAR, FAR from that...

**dtowncitylover** · July-28-11, 06:24 PM

The vibe I'm feeling is that some people want Somerset to do more for Detroit. Well, Somerset doesn't have to do anything for Detroit. But they said, "Hey, we realize that Detroit has no retail and we realize people are starting to think about Detroit again. So let's open a boutique down there." No should expect Somerset to entirely replicate itself downtown.

And frankly, perhaps this is a corny attempt to do something, but this is for the first time in decades, that some brands and stores have been sold in Detroit. I heard the business reporter on WWJ say earlier this afternoon, "...this is the first time a major department store [[i.e. N-M and Saks) has been represented downtown since the closing of Hudson's." I would say this is a HUGE step in the retail development downtown even though the attempt is small.

**English** · July-28-11, 06:32 PM

If they make money, they may expand it, folks. We'll just have to see.

**stasu1213** · July-28-11, 09:18 PM

I don't think there was anything wrong with the set up inside of the building. I think that somerset should had just simply opened the storefront without the blacktie gala affair. People's expectation were high due to the gala affair that happened the day before. I like the idea of the so-called "fleamarket setup for this is a trial run. Le's face it; at least someone is trying to put something in downtown detroit besides the trendy "Hood" outfits, funky tee shirts and "going to the caberet type suit stores for men.I think that the Winter Garden in the RenCen should hold some type of venue such as the Somerset Collection in the future. I hop that the Somerset Collection will be back during the Thanksgiving thru Christmas holidays. Just imagine shopping downtown while others are ice skating at campus martius. What a christmasy feeling for downtown detroit

**StubbyStone** · July-28-11, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I don't think there was anything wrong with the set up inside of the building. I think that somerset should had just simply opened the storefront without the blacktie gala affair. People's expectation were high due to the gala affair that happened the day before. I like the idea of the so-called "fleamarket setup for this is a trial run. Le's face it; at least someone is trying to put something in downtown detroit besides the trendy "Hood" outfits, funky tee shirts and "going to the caberet type suit stores for men.I think that the Winter Garden in the RenCen should hold some type of venue such as the Somerset Collection in the future. I hop that the Somerset Collection will be back during the Thanksgiving thru Christmas holidays. Just imagine shopping downtown while others are ice skating at campus martius. What a christmasy feeling for downtown detroit

i agree, the blacktie gala affair and media coverage beforehand made expectations high... i am grateful that they gave it a shot [[even though it was a poor one IMO) and i sure hope it leads to more...

**Gambling Man** · July-29-11, 09:45 AM

I was at the "gala affair" and I spoke with several people who work for Dan. It is certainly the way he does things, go big or go home. I don't know what was formerly in the space that occupies this store, but they renovated a storefront very nicely, and I think it was a tremendous thing for downtown. It did bring alot of people downtown who wouldn't normally be there. I lived downtown for 4 years, it's an uphill battle to change people's perceptions of the place, much less get them to actually come down.....I applaud all of them for their efforts.

I rarely post on this site anymore, primarily for threads such as this that become so negative in the face of unbelievably positive things.....wake up people, what have any of you done to effectuate such positive press for downtown?

**iheartthed** · July-29-11, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by StubbyStone

I'm all about gratitude and being thankful for things and truth be told, i am grateful for the effort... but please, this was not worth all the hype and the city honestly deserves better... I'm not being bitter, I'm being real... Detroit needs to put out a better product and sometimes it's like the D expects you to settle for something just because it's the D and they know you love it... but that's not fair... it's like taking advantage of a family member just because you know they have to love and forgive you...

places like Avalon and Slow's, they put out a great product and people come from all over because it's a great product, not because it's the D... that's what the D needs... put out something that someone from anywhere would love... Cityloft was FAR, FAR, FAR from that...

Basically. If this is what passes for impressive in Detroit then no wonder people are fleeing it like the plague for the more "happening" pastures in Chicago and on the coasts.

**esp1986** · July-29-11, 10:03 AM

The bottom line here is this... No retail chain believes that any sort of retail development is sustainable in Detroit. By generating buzz and bringing people to the door of the place, a demonstration is being made that there is demand. Now, this project may very well be underwhelming, but the bottom line is that they are demonstrating to retailers that there is demand Downtown. I have a pretty good source who indicated that Dan Gilbert was willing to all but pay for the rent of an Apple Store in the Chase Tower, much like Compuware paid for the buildout of Texas de Brazil. Right now, developers/property owners like Dan Gilbert and Peter Karmanos can't pay to get some of the things they want downtown. The fact that there was a lot of traffic at CityLoft is simply a showing that there is demand there. And to think, Quicken has another 2,000 people yet to move Downtown, BCBS has only moved about 300 of the 3,000+ they plan to move, and DTE just announced another 300 moving Downtown, so the demand will only grow.

Even though this may not be the best thing, above all, it is meant to be a demonstration to retailers that retail demand exists Downtown. This is why getting a retailer like Whole Foods [[even despite the incentives) is such a big stepping stone for the city, other retailers will take notice, and perhaps follow.

Dan Gilbert has been behind the scenes giving this all he's got, and it hasn't been easy. He realizes, he's got to start somewhere and make a statement for people to see.

**bailey** · July-29-11, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Basically. If this is what passes for impressive in Detroit then no wonder people are fleeing it like the plague for the more "happening" pastures in Chicago and on the coasts.

It is. and you're right.

but the same people fleeing for "happening" places are the same people that wouldn't go downtown to shop at this place anyway because Detroit is too ghetto scary and black for them.

I like the idea. I think it's a total gimmick. But sometimes gimmicks work. right? maybe it'll lead to something permanent. When it fails and nothing comes of this upscale flea market. the only people to blame are the detroitists that didn't support it.

**iheartthed** · July-29-11, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

It is. and you're right.

but the same people fleeing for "happening" places are the same people that wouldn't go downtown to shop at this place anyway because Detroit is too ghetto scary and black for them.

I like the idea. I think it's a total gimmick. But sometimes gimmicks work. right? maybe it'll lead to something permanent. When it fails and nothing comes of this upscale flea market. the only people to blame are the detroitists that didn't support it.

I agree that sometimes gimmicks work, but they have to be impressive gimmicks. This is just not that impressive to me. And with the amount of canvas available in Detroit why limit yourself to painting in a square inch corner of the sheet?

I'm not so sure that the people who flee for the coasts are scared of Detroit because it's scary and black. Washington was as scary and as black as Detroit before. Harlem was scarier and blacker than Detroit, now it's filling up with condos and upscale restaurants. People flee Detroit because it's the place where ambitions go to die. Or at least that's the stigma currently attached to the city/region.

**dtowncitylover** · July-29-11, 10:58 AM

I know many people of my generation [[under 30) who would rather make the trek to shop downtown, than shop in a mall. Unlike the previous generation[[s) where the mall became the preferred choice, they realize Detroit is a gem to be restored and would like to patronize it.

**bailey** · July-29-11, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I agree that sometimes gimmicks work, but they have to be impressive gimmicks. This is just not that impressive to me. And with the amount of canvas available in Detroit why limit yourself to painting in a square inch corner of the sheet?

I'm not so sure that the people who flee for the coasts are scared of Detroit because it's scary and black. Washington was as scary and as black as Detroit before. Harlem was scarier and blacker than Detroit, now it's filling up with condos and upscale restaurants. People flee Detroit because it's the place where ambitions go to die. Or at least that's the stigma currently attached to the city/region.

I don't disagree. I just think perception has a lot to do with things and that that many will overlook a lot of the same issues that they bitched about around here when they get to whatever "real city" they move to.

**bailey** · July-29-11, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I know many people of my generation [[under 30) who would rather make the trek to shop downtown, than shop in a mall. Unlike the previous generation[[s) where the mall became the preferred choice, they realize Detroit is a gem to be restored and would like to patronize it.

Great. then this experiment should be an unqualified success and a downtown shopping district will result.

**esp1986** · July-29-11, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I agree that sometimes gimmicks work, but they have to be impressive gimmicks. This is just not that impressive to me. And with the amount of canvas available in Detroit why limit yourself to painting in a square inch corner of the sheet?

I'm not so sure that the people who flee for the coasts are scared of Detroit because it's scary and black. Washington was as scary and as black as Detroit before. Harlem was scarier and blacker than Detroit, now it's filling up with condos and upscale restaurants. People flee Detroit because it's the place where ambitions go to die. Or at least that's the stigma currently attached to the city/region.

Every big city has the same issues surrounding retail, like theft. If retail is to take off in Detroit, then they will need to do as a lot of big cities do and have on duty police officers in stores, standing at the front door. For instance, I was at the Apple Store on Michigan Avenue in Chicago about a year ago now, they had a Chicago Police Officer, wearing the same Apple shirt that all of the other employees were wearing, with his badge, gun and cuffs on his belt. McDonalds had an officer as well, just in uniform instead. Now granted, Detroit doesn't currently have the foot-traffic of Chicago, but if there were to be a couple of stores that express an interest in coming to Downtown Detroit, the city should step up, and as part of incentive to get them here, offer police officers in their store. It would likely cost the city about $300,000 per year, but the potential payback via further development is priceless.

**iheartthed** · July-29-11, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Every big city has the same issues surrounding retail, like theft. If retail is to take off in Detroit, then they will need to do as a lot of big cities do and have on duty police officers in stores, standing at the front door. For instance, I was at the Apple Store on Michigan Avenue in Chicago about a year ago now, they had a Chicago Police Officer, wearing the same Apple shirt that all of the other employees were wearing, with his badge, gun and cuffs on his belt. McDonalds had an officer as well, just in uniform instead. Now granted, Detroit doesn't currently have the foot-traffic of Chicago, but if there were to be a couple of stores that express an interest in coming to Downtown Detroit, the city should step up, and as part of incentive to get them here, offer police officers in their store. It would likely cost the city about $300,000.

The Apple Store must pay some type of fee to have uniformed officers stationed in the store. I have never noticed that whenever I visit Chicago, and I certainly have never seen that here in New York where I live. There is a visible police presence in shopping districts in New York, but they are hardly ever in individual stores. But shopping districts in cities like New York and Chicago are so busy that robberies aren't really viable due to the sheer number of witnesses.

But the security in the shopping districts isn't the flaw of Detroit... Since you'd actually have to have a shopping district in order to have a security problem.

**hamtown mike** · July-29-11, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by StubbyStone

...the city honestly deserves better...

The city deserves better? How so? If we're talking economics, free market economics, the city "deserves" what ever the market demands.

**esp1986** · July-29-11, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The Apple Store must pay some type of fee to have uniformed officers stationed in the store. I have never noticed that whenever I visit Chicago, and I certainly have never seen that here in New York where I live. There is a visible police presence in shopping districts in New York, but they are hardly ever in individual stores. But shopping districts in cities like New York and Chicago are so busy that robberies aren't really viable due to the sheer number of witnesses.

But the security in the shopping districts isn't the flaw of Detroit... Since you'd actually have to have a shopping district in order to have a security problem.

I was merely using the Apple Store as an example. Nearly every high traffic store has them, often dressed in the same attire as store staff and looking like security, until you look at the badge. I am told by a family member in Chicago that the stores don't have to pay for them. Since the majority of crime in an area like that is theft, they put some of the officers in stores rather than just roaming the streets. That's what income taxes are supposed to pay for in an area like that. Businesses do so much more volume in business in an urban area like Chicago that they pay quite a lot in income taxes that pay for itself. Obviously Detroit doesn't have that luxury.

**iheartthed** · July-29-11, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

I was merely using the Apple Store as an example. Nearly every high traffic store has them, often dressed in the same attire as store staff and looking like security, until you look at the badge. I am told by a family member in Chicago that the stores don't have to pay for them. Since the majority of crime in an area like that is theft, they put some of the officers in stores rather than just roaming the streets. That's what income taxes are supposed to pay for in an area like that. Businesses do so much more volume in business in an urban area like Chicago that they pay quite a lot in income taxes that pay for itself. Obviously Detroit doesn't have that luxury.

Frankly, the idea seems silly, especially for an Apple Store. Theft at an Apple Store would be either through an employee or a fraud scam [[i.e. using stolen cards). Police presence doesn't do too much to deter that, and even if it did the rate of incident would be so low that it would be a huge waste of money. But I guess Chicago has resources to waste... Though I might be kinda pissed if I was a store owner on the south or west side who didn't have the luxury of police preference.

**English** · July-29-11, 01:49 PM

Thinking about dropping by today after I leave campus. Is there a website I missed upthread? I'm looking for specific location and hours.

**brizee** · July-29-11, 02:21 PM

Haven't been inside yet. Seems like a pretty ridiculous idea.

But I do wish it all the success in the world.

Those Freep comments though...

Does Detroit doing even a little bit well actually make people angry?

**Planner3357** · July-29-11, 03:06 PM

I checked it out yesterday. It's very cramped, but it's a start. I'll be out of town this weekend so I'll have to wait until next month to actually buy something.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-29-11, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

I was merely using the Apple Store as an example. Nearly every high traffic store has them, often dressed in the same attire as store staff and looking like security, until you look at the badge. I am told by a family member in Chicago that the stores don't have to pay for them. Since the majority of crime in an area like that is theft, they put some of the officers in stores rather than just roaming the streets. That's what income taxes are supposed to pay for in an area like that. Businesses do so much more volume in business in an urban area like Chicago that they pay quite a lot in income taxes that pay for itself. Obviously Detroit doesn't have that luxury.

Chicago does not have an income tax. http://www.chacha.com/question/what-...ity-income-tax

This is why the sales tax is so high there. Residents figure its better to get the tourists to pay it.

**Danny** · July-29-11, 03:21 PM

I went to the mini Somerset Mall in Downtown Detroit and jam packed with customers. I hope there would be more when it opens next month.

**dtowncitylover** · July-29-11, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Great. then this experiment should be an unqualified success and a downtown shopping district will result.

No because none of my friends make enough money to support such high end stores. We like Target, Old Navy, and Kohls...bring those down here and yes that it will be a unqualified success. And those stores are stores that can be patronized by the majority of Detroiters...