A National Disgrace: Documentary on Detroit Public Schools

[Danny]

All Detroit Public Schools must die, NEVER! Detroit always need its public school system. Critics see DPS is full of uneducated black kids who ever made it the White Man's America. Thus either woking at some dead end job earining slave wages, selling street drugs on street corners and possessing the criminal element destined to go to jail and death! However I see DPS changing for the better. Yes the old school buildings are old and the teachers not getting the paychecks worth, but they stick around and never give up on their students. Kids from all ages and ethnic background will attend DPS next year and year after that until it get's better.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Anyone who calls DPS a national disgrace must be act of RACE CARDS that white folks love to play. If you all want the education revolution, its starts at home before it hits the ghettoes.

I miss you so, Neda.

[laphoque]

On YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ4rpljIX1M

[bailey]

That program allows the districts, if it wants to participate, enroll students from outside of its district. You are correct in that. However, whether the participants are the higher quality schools is debatable. From what I can see, the schools that are on par with DPS offer unlimited enrollment participations whereas those that are quite a bit better limit enrollment at the grade levels where it is most beneficial for students to get out of failing schools.

I think the answer to your question is contained in your post.

[rhythmc]

I think the answer to your question is contained in your post.

So, the answer is that students that should be allowed to get an education that is truly "2nd to none" instead get an equally subpar education in suburban school. If this is so, how can anyone stand for this?

[bailey]

So, the answer is that students that should be allowed to get an education that is truly "2nd to none" instead get an equally subpar education in suburban school. If this is so, how can anyone stand for this?

Why is the answer to ship students out to a high performing district instead of fixing DPS?

Look if you want Birmingham's "2nd to none" schools, move to Birmingham. But telling Birmingham that they MUST...no choice about it... MUST accept DPS refugees is not a solution.

Fixing DPS should be the goal here. Making it mandatory that all districts are schools of choice will just speed up the regions decline.

[guito13]

Solution to fix DPS Schools: PARENTAL ACCOUNTABILITY.

I know several teachers in "School of Choice" Districts, most of the kids that come in from the city bring the problems with them. I hear that the parents of these kids rarely come around and appear to not play much of a part in their child[[rens) lives in any way.

Fix the parents, fix the kids, fix the schools. Quit playing the race card here, we all want to see kids excel, no matter where they come from.

[DetroitTeacher]

Amen! I saw 3 parents at Parent Teacher Conferences [[out of 150+). I see them when the kid has an issue with ME...but I never see a parent until a kid starts complaining that I won't take a project past the due date [[not homework...a major project that they've had at least a month to complete). I also get yelled at for disturbing the parent when I call a student's home because of an issue [[usually because I haven't seen the kid in a while and I'm trying to find out if there is a problem I need to be aware of). That same parent that yells at me when I call will be the first one in expecting answers when their kid fails my class. I can only do so much.

Solution to fix DPS Schools: PARENTAL ACCOUNTABILITY.

I know several teachers in "School of Choice" Districts, most of the kids that come in from the city bring the problems with them. I hear that the parents of these kids rarely come around and appear to not play much of a part in their child[[rens) lives in any way.

Fix the parents, fix the kids, fix the schools. Quit playing the race card here, we all want to see kids excel, no matter where they come from.

[SWMAP]

What is it? Don't these parents that are annoyed with you for bothering them ever watch television or films? Don't they know that most American parents are very involved with their children?

What is it theat makes parenting so different for DPS parents?

[DetroitTeacher]

I have no clue what the issue is. If I had the answers, I could devise a solution.

What is it? Don't these parents that are annoyed with you for bothering them ever watch television or films? Don't they know that most American parents are very involved with their children?

What is it theat makes parenting so different for DPS parents?

[rhythmc]

Why is the answer to ship students out to a high performing district instead of fixing DPS?

Look if you want Birmingham's "2nd to none" schools, move to Birmingham. But telling Birmingham that they MUST...no choice about it... MUST accept DPS refugees is not a solution.

Fixing DPS should be the goal here. Making it mandatory that all districts are schools of choice will just speed up the regions decline.

Why is the region doomed to decline?

[maxx]

So the way to improve DPS is to pay teachers less? Businesspeople laugh at such an idea when anyone suggests such a thing regarding top management. And I thought charters weren't doing anybody better on the MEAP than public schools. A bunch of charters will create even more admin. jobs . Will charters be required to teach real science and who is going to make sure they do?

Berkley Schools had some students from Detroit and word in the teachers' lunchroom was generally they regretted it. One unruly student in a high school class of less than sterling students can cause a lot of disruption and loss of teaching time.

[rjk]

Unfortunately I don't have available stats, but I have seen the comparative studies in my previous employment. I assume the Michigan Dept. of Education has school-based aggregate test scores on their website.

Generally speaking, charter schools don't outperform apples-to-apples public schools. And, specific to Detroit, test scores [[MEAP, ACT and the like) for Detroit-based charters aren't any better than DPS. This is unfortunate but true.

I'm no educator or researcher, though. Forumers like English undoubtedly have greater insight on the issue.

BTW, one can "get rid of" underperforming public schools just as one can with charter schools. Every year, for example, NYC schools shut down the bottom x% of schools.

That's NYC, has Detroit had a plan to get rid of bad schools? I don't know, I'm just asking.
They're getting rid of them know, but it's has to get to the point of DPS being a disaster for it to happen.

Interesting that you mention NYC because a lawsuit by the teachers union delayed the closure of bad schools last year. I guess this is an example of the teachers union putting kids first.

I have a question about the pay that charter teachers get if anyone knows. I read somewhere that charter school teachers in Detroit make the same as the union DPS teachers in that district make. True?

[izzyindetroit]

Completely worth the $1.99 from itunes. I slapped myself on the forehead when the board members explained that have absolutely no ability to change the district's culture; they are merely policy makers and it is up to their hired staff to make decisions. I liked how they painted Bobb in a very comprehensive light, first as a hero and then as villain. I found it ironic that teachers are upset about being laid off yet there were stories of teachers drinking in class, cancelling science fairs, and not even showing up to work.

Wish the program would've touched on the new state EMF law, but I am sure that the law is to new to add them into editing for the episode.

[buzzman0077]

I agree with Detroitdad. It's the parents where the problem sits. No amount of money thrown at classrooms is going to fix the fact that almost fifty percent of these children go home to parents that obviously had no respect for education as they grew up [[seeing as that percentage of them are illiterate), and many of them are not much older than high schoolers when they started having children.

This whole rant is that everything comes back to the home. If you are raised in a home where you feel safe, there is stability, and caring nurturing parents who use more positive language than negative, read to their children, and put an emphasis on education you will have success. Most Detroit students have been set up for failure before they ever start school.

[English]

There's so much here until I hardly know where to begin. Nevertheless, if we get rid of DPS and put smaller districts or individual charter schools in place, we won't get different results until we figure out how to educate the kids who are below grade level, have behavioral/emotional/cognitive impairments, or who have to deal with toxic home and community environments.

And -- this I can confidently state -- no one knows how to do that on a large scale. What we have are thousands of heroes like DetroitTeacher trying to do the best they can for as many kids as they can. Instead of supporting them, we are choosing to attack them, claiming they are overpaid for the results they get. Sad.

[English]

I found it ironic that teachers are upset about being laid off yet there were stories of teachers drinking in class, cancelling science fairs, and not even showing up.

How come when they do these documentaries, they never show people like DetroitTeacher? It is amazing that in a city and a country like this, so many teachers just shake their heads, go into their classrooms, and do the best they can.

But no one wants to hear about what works in urban ed...

[coracle]

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

i agree with you; the Public Union Class must be irrevocablly defeated so that we can spend our money for the benefit of the pupils and not for political card carrying members to reward themselves
for failure.

[Bham1982]

And -- this I can confidently state -- no one knows how to do that on a large scale.

I think Harlem Children's Zone, which is pretty sizable and growing, shows we can educate children from disadvantaged families when there's serious money being spent.

The problem is that we can't spend that kind of cash. Harlem Children's Zone is [[comparatively speaking) swimming in cash, with tons of heavy-duty corporate support [[Goldman Sachs, hedge funds, etc.). And founder Geoffery Canada is one-in-a-million.

Not to mention, Harlem is pretty heavily gentrified, and the poor kids are now surrounded by middle and upper classes in every facet of life.

[Bham1982]

i agree with you; the Public Union Class must be irrevocablly defeated so that we can spend our money for the benefit of the pupils and not for political card carrying members to reward themselves for failure.

Eh, I'm no union supporter, but you really think unions are the primary problem with DPS?

I mean, suburban schools are all unionized, with even cushier salaries/benefits. And unionized DPS had better public schools than the suburbs before the 60's, so much that Grosse Pointe South [[formerly GP High) almost became part of DPS.

Do you really think that students would benefit if we broke the unions? I'm not getting the causal relationships here.

If we believe that teachers can make a difference in student performance, we should strive for better pay and benefits, since DPS is in competition with everyone else for teaching talent.

[oldredfordette]

English is correct, as usual. What's sad is nobody wants to blame the parents for the problem but one of the biggest problems is 1) children having children 2) under-worked poor people with too many children 3) a system that is ice-cold unsympathetic to the plight of the poor 4) a complete lack of support for working parents. Just for starters. So blame the teachers, who are the last line of defense for many of these children. It makes you suspect that the school to prison fast track is somehow deliberate.

[rhythmc]

How come when they do these documentaries, they never show people like DetroitTeacher? It is amazing that in a city and a country like this, so many teachers just shake their heads, go into their classrooms, and do the best they can.

But no one wants to hear about what works in urban ed...

Definitely, not trying to be confrontational, but if DetroitTeacher sees this, can he/she explain what their efforts are and why they are successful at educating students in Detroit?

[DetroitTeacher]

OK, I was refraining from posting here for obvious reasons but I'll take a shot at trying to explain why I think I have success with the kids. Bottom line is...I care and they know it. I don't accept the fact that I get a paycheck whether they learn or not. I make them make me earn my money. I do not want anyone to think that I am the most awesome thing since sliced bread. I don't have any answers but have just found what works best for me and my kids. Because of the following, I usually have kids who will bend over backwards and do what I ask of them. They know it's for their benefit because I already have my education. This is just what I came up with at 10:30 at night. I am sure my kids could provide you with more insight.

For the record, I am a "she teacher".

1) I treat each and every kid as if I gave birth to them. They deserve that respect. They know I care and I am there to kick ass if they don't succeed [[just like I would with my own kid).
2) I break things down. I know not all kids learn the same. I treat each kid as an individual and help them make goals for their personal gain, not to conquer some test.
3) I use lots of humor. I try and keep things in the class interesting [[you'd be amazed at how the kids get into the Anglo Saxons and Beowulf because I wear a silly Viking helmet when I give the lesson and read Beowulf).
4) I understand that some kids can multi-task and can't work in complete silence. I don't ban music in my class, as long as it isn't disruptive to others.
5) I understand that life happens. My kids have enough issues and responsibilities at home without my adding to it. I offer them class time to complete work.
6) I expect the best from them. I also demand that they expect the best from themselves.
7) I stopped calling their homes. I take care of issues in house. My classroom is like Vegas. What happens there, stays there. You'd be suprised what my kids face when they got home because a teacher called their house and was concerned about an issue the kid was having.
8) I care about them when they leave school [[not just the building, but in life). I keep in touch with my kids. The kids I currently have know this because it's all over my Facebook. They know I'll take the time to proofread and edit college papers. They know I'll help them with another teacher's work.
9) They trust me. I trust them.
10) If they need something, I care enough to make sure they have it. Mittens, hats, paper, food, a shoulder to cry on, tampons and toilet paper...they know it's in my room and if they need it, they can go get it. No need to ask.
11) I smile at them, cry with them, laugh with them, hug them, and am ready to kick their butts if they screw up.
12) I read everything they turn in, grade it, provide feedback...and do this all in a 3 day turnaround. They know they can count on me to set them on the right path if they don't understand something.
13) I always let them know what their grade is and what they need to do to improve. There are no secrets in my gradebook. I post grades on the wall...
14) I will go into the hall and drag them into my class [[or irritate them so much that they go to whatever class they are supposed to be in).
15) I am a believer in the "I do, we do together, you do with support and you do alone" method of teaching. The kids know they have the support and the objectives are clear.
16) If they don't get something right, I don't chastize or ignore the mistake. I take corrective measures and let the kids correct their mistakes [[they usually figure out what needs to be corrected before I even say anything).
17) If someone asks me a question, no matter how personal, I am honest with them. This is given back in their honesty with me.
18) I tell them personal stories [[much of what I relate, they are experiencing just at a different level). They know that I was a kid once [[and totally hated school).
19) They know I love my job. They know what teachers are doing what's best for the kids and they know what teachers are just there to collect a check.
20). They know I love them.
21) I come from their neighborhood. It was where I was raised. They know I have a vested interest in their well-being because I am "one of them".
22) When I take classes, I include them in what I am learning. I share with them the syllabus, I share with them topics of discussion. They know I am still learning and they appreciate the fact that I have tons of homework, too. I feel their pain.
23) I don't want them to agree with me simply because I am an adult or their teacher. I want and ask them to challenge me, to think for themselves, to have an opinion, to voice that opnion. I value what they have to say.
24) I know my stuff. The kids know that I know the literature. They know that I expect them to see something different in it than I do [[after all, I have a good...let's just say 25 years on em and have had different experiences). They can also tell you what teachers don't know jack about the subject matter.
25) I realize that there are no other kids like my kids. They know that I don't want to teach anywhere else. I appreciate what they go through just to GET to school and welcome them into the room each day. I also know all of their names. It's no small task with the multitude of pronunciations and the twin population!

[Wesley Mouch]

Eh, I'm no union supporter, but you really think unions are the primary problem with DPS?

I mean, suburban schools are all unionized, with even cushier salaries/benefits. And unionized DPS had better public schools than the suburbs before the 60's, so much that Grosse Pointe South [[formerly GP High) almost became part of DPS.

Do you really think that students would benefit if we broke the unions? I'm not getting the causal relationships here.

If we believe that teachers can make a difference in student performance, we should strive for better pay and benefits, since DPS is in competition with everyone else for teaching talent.

If you are thinking that it has to do with pay, you're on the wrong track. It has to do with control.

from the ever-accurate and teacher loved Wikipedia on Michelle Rhee...

In 2008, she also sought to renegotiate how the school system compensates teachers. Rhee offered teachers the choice of: being paid up to $140,000 based on what she termed "student achievement"[vague] by losing tenure or earning much smaller pay raises by retaining tenure. Teachers and the teachers union rejected the proposal, contesting that some form of tenure was necessary to protect against arbitrary, political, or wrongful termination of employment.

Notice that money doesn't trump power.

I'd also suggest you read about Green Dot schools. Read this joint Green Dot /SEIU / Parents report...

“Steve Barr noticed that at one of Green Dots’ high schools, a large proportion of students has parents who were members of Local 1877 of the Service Employees International Union [[SEIU). From this observation, a partnership evolved between Green Dot and SEIU’s national organization, as well as its Los Angeles affiliate. While most professional unions have opposed charter schools, SEIU has embraced LAPU’s reform agenda because their members’ children are the main victims of failing urban schools. For almost a year, SEIU has formally worked with Green Dot and LAPU, providing LAPU with both funding and technical assistance from experienced organizers. In turn, SEIU is interested in exploring how Green Dot’s model and LAPU’s organizing efforts can drive school reform in other urban districts across the country.”

To sum up, what innovators and reformers don't like about Unions is not pay-related. Its the design of the collective bargaining process that restricts management's ability to make changes to practices and procedures. It all about power.

[firstandten]

Ah ! DT in other words you treat them like human beings with fairness and compassion and a level of expectation that lets them know that you care.

[rhythmc]

OK, I was refraining from posting here for obvious reasons but I'll take a shot at trying to explain why I think I have success with the kids. Bottom line is...I care and they know it. I don't accept the fact that I get a paycheck whether they learn or not. I make them make me earn my money. I do not want anyone to think that I am the most awesome thing since sliced bread. I don't have any answers but have just found what works best for me and my kids. Because of the following, I usually have kids who will bend over backwards and do what I ask of them. They know it's for their benefit because I already have my education. This is just what I came up with at 10:30 at night. I am sure my kids could provide you with more insight.

For the record, I am a "she teacher".

1) I treat each and every kid as if I gave birth to them. They deserve that respect. They know I care and I am there to kick ass if they don't succeed [[just like I would with my own kid).
2) I break things down. I know not all kids learn the same. I treat each kid as an individual and help them make goals for their personal gain, not to conquer some test.
3) I use lots of humor. I try and keep things in the class interesting [[you'd be amazed at how the kids get into the Anglo Saxons and Beowulf because I wear a silly Viking helmet when I give the lesson and read Beowulf).
4) I understand that some kids can multi-task and can't work in complete silence. I don't ban music in my class, as long as it isn't disruptive to others.
5) I understand that life happens. My kids have enough issues and responsibilities at home without my adding to it. I offer them class time to complete work.
6) I expect the best from them. I also demand that they expect the best from themselves.
7) I stopped calling their homes. I take care of issues in house. My classroom is like Vegas. What happens there, stays there. You'd be suprised what my kids face when they got home because a teacher called their house and was concerned about an issue the kid was having.
8) I care about them when they leave school [[not just the building, but in life). I keep in touch with my kids. The kids I currently have know this because it's all over my Facebook. They know I'll take the time to proofread and edit college papers. They know I'll help them with another teacher's work.
9) They trust me. I trust them.
10) If they need something, I care enough to make sure they have it. Mittens, hats, paper, food, a shoulder to cry on, tampons and toilet paper...they know it's in my room and if they need it, they can go get it. No need to ask.
11) I smile at them, cry with them, laugh with them, hug them, and am ready to kick their butts if they screw up.
12) I read everything they turn in, grade it, provide feedback...and do this all in a 3 day turnaround. They know they can count on me to set them on the right path if they don't understand something.
13) I always let them know what their grade is and what they need to do to improve. There are no secrets in my gradebook. I post grades on the wall...
14) I will go into the hall and drag them into my class [[or irritate them so much that they go to whatever class they are supposed to be in).
15) I am a believer in the "I do, we do together, you do with support and you do alone" method of teaching. The kids know they have the support and the objectives are clear.
16) If they don't get something right, I don't chastize or ignore the mistake. I take corrective measures and let the kids correct their mistakes [[they usually figure out what needs to be corrected before I even say anything).
17) If someone asks me a question, no matter how personal, I am honest with them. This is given back in their honesty with me.
18) I tell them personal stories [[much of what I relate, they are experiencing just at a different level). They know that I was a kid once [[and totally hated school).
19) They know I love my job. They know what teachers are doing what's best for the kids and they know what teachers are just there to collect a check.
20). They know I love them.
21) I come from their neighborhood. It was where I was raised. They know I have a vested interest in their well-being because I am "one of them".
22) When I take classes, I include them in what I am learning. I share with them the syllabus, I share with them topics of discussion. They know I am still learning and they appreciate the fact that I have tons of homework, too. I feel their pain.
23) I don't want them to agree with me simply because I am an adult or their teacher. I want and ask them to challenge me, to think for themselves, to have an opinion, to voice that opnion. I value what they have to say.
24) I know my stuff. The kids know that I know the literature. They know that I expect them to see something different in it than I do [[after all, I have a good...let's just say 25 years on em and have had different experiences). They can also tell you what teachers don't know jack about the subject matter.
25) I realize that there are no other kids like my kids. They know that I don't want to teach anywhere else. I appreciate what they go through just to GET to school and welcome them into the room each day. I also know all of their names. It's no small task with the multitude of pronunciations and the twin population!

Thank you for your response. I can see that you truly care for your students. I had a number of teachers just like you while I went through school.

Why aren't there more teachers like you? Do you think you can identify them? Can you recruit them to Detroit?