Oakland County Can't Keep Snowy Roads Clear; Blames Budget Cuts

[DetroitPlanner]

The competence of the RCOC is limited to what they've always done -- build more roads and assume someone will give them the money to maintain them. They admit they cannot afford to maintain the roads they have while they continue to widen roads and even create new ones.

The RCOC has been making major pitches for increased road taxes so they can continue doing what they've always done. They are a one-trick pony that has alway assumed their "trick" would be sustainable.

You can have this same arguement and substitute rails to trails or DDOT. What is your point? None of these agencies have the power to maintain anything in Michigan unless they are given a piece of the pie from soneone else.

[Todd_Scott]

You can have this same arguement and substitute rails to trails or DDOT. What is your point? None of these agencies have the power to maintain anything in Michigan unless they are given a piece of the pie from soneone else.

That's no revelation and that's not the point of what I wrote.

The RCOC has built an unsustainable road infrastructure by design and has expected everyone else to continue funding them. They are continuing to expand their infrastructure in light of diminishing funding.

In addition, the RCOC is a separate government entity which is unaccountable to the public and even unaccountable to the county itself.

This is a model of roadway governance created by bicyclists in the 1890s that only survives today due to cronyism and state law.

[DetroitPlanner]

That's no revelation and that's not the point of what I wrote.

The RCOC has built an unsustainable road infrastructure by design and has expected everyone else to continue funding them. They are continuing to expand their infrastructure in light of diminishing funding.

In addition, the RCOC is a separate government entity which is unaccountable to the public and even unaccountable to the county itself.

This is a model of roadway governance created by bicyclists in the 1890s that only survives today due to cronyism and state law.

Where are the federal and state dollars for the transit agencies and biking community coming from? User fees generated by those who purchase gasoline and vehicle registrations. This is the same pot of money used for the roads. In fact if it wasn't for gas taxes the transit and rails to trails operators would be hosed. If you are going to say that the road agencies build things that are unsustainable, you need to look at where those dollars come from! Politicians may respond with... hmm they won't be unsustainable if we just cut off bike and transit funding.

To say that road commissions are unaccountable as a defense is a joke. In most counties in Michigan these are elected positions. In urban areas they are appointed by elected officials. The last thing that Brooks wants is to appoint an idiot to the Road Commission. You might as well say rails to trails and DDOT are unaccountable. If you are so sure of your statements, tell me which roads that RCOC is add next year? Which road did they adding this year? I see RCOC fixing a lot of roads, putting in a lot of bike paths, and doing things that make roads safer. They spend a lot more to mainatin things than they do to expand the network. What few expansions I have seen are bike paths that they have built in townships!

What does your arguement even have to do with the topic at hand? The Commission is seeing lower revenues and they need to adjust thier spending to it. How is this being irresponsible? What kind of responsibillity does the biking or transit community have? All they do is suck the revenues generated for road repairs away. Nothing is generated by these two modes that go into the HTF or Act 51.

The system of funding transportation is broke. Your wild arguements are not helping solve any problems. If the user fees for the road agencies have got to this point, and as our government looks to make cuts, the first thing cut is going to be bike paths and transit. That is the last thing I want.

[Todd_Scott]

Where are the federal and state dollars for the transit agencies and biking community coming from? User fees generated by those who purchase gasoline and vehicle registrations. This is the same pot of money used for the roads. In fact if it wasn't for gas taxes the transit and rails to trails operators would be hosed. If you are going to say that the road agencies build things that are unsustainable, you need to look at where those dollars come from! Politicians may respond with... hmm they won't be unsustainable if we just cut off bike and transit funding.

Here's a quick lesson on bike facilities and transportation funding. Yes, we use some transportation funding to build them and a portion of that funding is tied to user fees. Some facilities are already quite sustainable [[e.g. Dequindre Cut and RiverWalk.) We are working to make sure all are sustainable and funded in the near future through sources other than transportation funding. So, no, the gas tax has no bearing rail-trail operations.

New RCOC roads? Martin in Commerce and the Lyon Townships ring roads are two recent additions that come to mind. Next year they are widening portions of Crooks, Southfield, 12 Mile, Baldwin, Tienken, and Orchard Lake Road. They also plan to pave Washington. They are continuing to expand their maintenance liability.

To say that road commissions are unaccountable as a defense is a joke.

No, it's no joke. It's by design. in 1890, bicyclists wanted good roads paid for through taxes. Farmers didn't. Bicyclists created legislation for road commissions that could build roads despite public opposition. By the early 1920s, there was no longer a need to have road commissions unaccountable to the public, but the state laws have never been updated.

Another correction to your comments. The RCOC does not fund bike paths.

[DetroitPlanner]

New RCOC roads? Martin in Commerce and the Lyon Townships ring roads are two recent additions that come to mind. Next year they are widening portions of Crooks, Southfield, 12 Mile, Baldwin, Tienken, and Orchard Lake Road. They also plan to pave Washington. They are continuing to expand their maintenance liability.

No, it's no joke. It's by design. in 1890, bicyclists wanted good roads paid for through taxes. Farmers didn't. Bicyclists created legislation for road commissions that could build roads despite public opposition. By the early 1920s, there was no longer a need to have road commissions unaccountable to the public, but the state laws have never been updated.

Another correction to your comments. The RCOC does not fund bike paths.

OL is not being widened, Commece Township is paying for Martin Rd, Crooks is a City of Troy Project. Town ships can't by law build anything in the road right of way. It must be done by the Road Commission. The funding may come from a combination of gas tax through the enhancement program or all funded by the township.

[Novine]

"No, the road net in Oakland County is exactly the same as it was sixty years ago with the exception of I-75, I-695, and M-59 which RCOC didn't plan. All of those gravel section line roads that existed in 1950 have just been paved and in some cases widened, the roads are still just as long as they ever were.."

You're going to ignore the thousands of miles of subdivision roads in the townships that RCOC maintains? Or the fact that a 5 lane road is more expensive to maintain than a two lane road?

[jackie5275]

You're going to ignore the thousands of miles of subdivision roads in the townships that RCOC maintains?

My family & I have lived in Oakland Co the past 40 yrs. I've NEVER EVER seen a RCOC truck clear any snow on any residential streets where we've lived. In the 70s when our street was a dirt road, they graded and oiled it once or twice a year. I don't know what maintainence they're providing and where, but in my 40 yrs of experience I've seen little work being done by them on residential streets.

[Hermod]

The RCOC has built an unsustainable road infrastructure by design and has expected everyone else to continue funding them. They are continuing to expand their infrastructure in light of diminishing funding.

No, the road net in Oakland County is exactly the same as it was sixty years ago with the exception of I-75, I-695, and M-59 which RCOC didn't plan. All of those gravel section line roads that existed in 1950 have just been paved and in some cases widened, the roads are still just as long as they ever were..

[iheartthed]

No, the road net in Oakland County is exactly the same as it was sixty years ago with the exception of I-75, I-695, and M-59 which RCOC didn't plan. All of those gravel section line roads that existed in 1950 have just been paved and in some cases widened, the roads are still just as long as they ever were..

The M-5 extension.