Why is it a recession rather than the second Great Depression?

[ccbatson]

Detroitej72...the definition of a depression is much softer than that of a recession. It has to do with the severity and duration of the economy GDP shrinking...however, the precise parameters are, well, imprecise.

[Detroitej72]

I would say a depression has more of a concrete definition. A recession seems to be more subjective to whoever is leading the charge for or against.

[Papasito]

Why is it a recession rather than the second Great Depression?

with a little help from the community organizer in training,
after health care and cap & trade take their toll,
interest rates climb & America's credit rating drops,
it certainly will be the second great depression.

[rb336]

Tarriffs. now more than ever. they saved Harley-Davidsn's butt. they are needed to save manufacturing

[ccbatson]

Rb...do you realize that tariffs were the spark that led to the first great depression?

[rb336]

Rb...do you realize that tariffs were the spark that led to the first great depression?

no, bats, they weren't. the vast majority of economists agree on that [[did they play a roll? yes, but again, the vast majority of economists agree it was minor in the US.) Even Crucini and Kahn [[who co-authored one of the major papers making the case of S-H as the root cause of the depression via a non-existent "labor wedge" that created mass inefficiencies, a concept they themselves acknowledge had no ) have revised their views

[oladub]

Rb...do you realize that tariffs were the spark that led to the first great depression?

The tarifffs are often cited as a contibuting factor. Another major contributing factor to the economic collapses of 1921 and 1929 was economic bubbles and speculation caused by the Federal Reserve's policy of cheap credit. The same could be said for the recent internet and ongoing housing bubbles.

[rb336]

not to mention complete lack of regulation in the markets

[oladub]

not to mention complete lack of regulation in the markets

The Federal Reserve regulated the markets. That was one of the problems. The Fed mis-regulated, rather than deregulated, the credit markets.These bailouts and all the money the Fed and Treasury are giving away to Bush and Obama regime friends are additional mis-regulations. Here is a Democrat to explain this to you.
Eliot Spitzer Takes On The Fed - MSNBC w/ Dylan Ratigan [[7/24/09)

[ccbatson]

Well said Oladub....BTW, the fed has been an anti free market big government tool since the earliest days.

[Detroitej72]

.BTW, the fed has been an anti free market big government tool since the earliest days.

Its been used as a tool by the banks and Capitan's of Industry as long as its been in existence. All of whom claim to be for a free market, except when they need handouts[[and bailouts) to compensate for their bad management.

[ccbatson]

"Claim"...now you begin to understand. If they are not what they claim [[free market), then what are they?

[DetroitDad]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Recess...53240.html?x=0

The U.S. housing market crash triggered the 2008 financial crisis and fueled a wave of mortgage defaults and foreclosures over the past two years. Now, growing numbers of well heeled Americans, their portfolios hammered by depressed markets, have stopped repaying loans or even walked away from mortgages.

"The affluent are not immune to the recession. It just took a while to manifest itself," said Jay Welker, chief executive of Wells Fargo Private Bank. "In this economy, the high net worth segment has had to de-leverage itself as well."

"This is probably the first foreclosure cycle that crept into the more affluent corner of the market," he said. "This cycle triggered a downturn which triggered job losses and a second wave of foreclosures. I don't think we've peaked yet."

[Mama Jackson]

Well, all i have to say is this. Since the rethuglicans have blocked the vote on the unemployment benefits this last week, it may be getting closer to a depression than any of us want. And they are doing this so they can have success with the mid term elections. This is what the Grand Old Party is doing to it's citizentry. Rethuglicans are crooks and thieves and they will put their own party politics BEFORE their elected duty to represent their citizens. They should all be drummed out of office.

[Jimaz]

Let's take no orders to slash and burn from this G20 club, by Naomi Klein

An institution dreamed up by finance ministers is trying to hand over the bill for the banking crisis to society's poorest

When the G20 met in London in 2009, at the height of the financial crisis, the leaders failed to band together to regulate the financial sector so that this type of crisis would never happen again. All we got was empty rhetoric, and an agreement to put trillions of dollars in public monies on the table to shore up banks around the world. Meanwhile the US government did little to keep people in their homes and jobs, so in addition to haemorrhaging public money to save the banks, the tax base collapsed, creating an entirely predictable debt and deficit crisis.

At this weekend's summit the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, convinced his fellow leaders that it simply wouldn't be fair to punish those banks that behaved well and did not create the crisis [[despite the fact that Canada's highly protected banks are consistently profitable and could easily absorb a tax). Yet, somehow, these leaders had no such concerns about fairness when they decided to punish blameless individuals for a crisis created by derivative traders and absentee regulators.

Last week a Canadian newspaper, the Globe and Mail, ran a fascinating article about the origins of the G20. It turns out the entire concept was conceived in a meeting back in 1999 between Canada's then finance minister, Paul Martin, and his US counterpart, Lawrence Summers [[itself interesting since Summers was, at that time, playing a central role in creating the conditions for this financial crisis, allowing a wave of bank consolidation and refusing to regulate derivatives).

The two men wanted to expand the G7, but only to countries they considered strategic and safe. They needed to make a list but apparently they didn't have any paper handy. So, according to reporters John Ibbitson and Tara Perkins, "the two men grabbed a brown manila envelope, put it on the table between them, and began sketching the framework of a new world order". Thus was born the G20....

The G20 is an ad hoc institution with none of the legitimacy of the United Nations. Since it just tried to stick us with a huge bill for a crisis most of us had no hand in creating, I say we take a cue from Martin and Summers. Flip it over, and write on the back of the envelope: Return to sender.

[johnsmith]

Well, all i have to say is this. Since the rethuglicans have blocked the vote on the unemployment benefits this last week, it may be getting closer to a depression than any of us want. And they are doing this so they can have success with the mid term elections. This is what the Grand Old Party is doing to it's citizentry. Rethuglicans are crooks and thieves and they will put their own party politics BEFORE their elected duty to represent their citizens. They should all be drummed out of office.

Don't forget to add the Democrats to your rant. Same coin, different side.

[Papasito]

the rethuglicans have blocked the vote on the unemployment benefits this last week,

You mean the pork packed bill that happened to have unemployment benefits shoved into it didn't pass?

Yeah thats a nice ploy. It's the same crap they pull with defense & social security budgeting. Make a bill for something that we actually need and shove a pile of crap in there like 1.4 million to research homosexual prostitution in Vietnam, 600k to study the mating habits of caterpillars or hundreds of millions to build a bridge to nowhere...

Then when the Democrats or Republicans vote as a block against more spending, the other side cries "what about the children" "what about the unemployed" "youre taking away social security" "you dont support our troops" or whatever depending on the intended recipients of the one portion of the fat package that actually mattered.

Government needs to knock that crap off.
Your side and the Republicans are both guilty of it.
It's time to make spending bills that pertain specifically to the item that needs to be funded,
minus pork.

[Papasito]

video: Obama says "Job Loss" "keeps him up at night"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...&snid=18424776
Maybe that happens somewhere after the parties at night and the golfing in the morning?

[Stosh]

You mean the pork packed bill that happened to have unemployment benefits shoved into it didn't pass?

Yeah thats a nice ploy. It's the same crap they pull with defense & social security budgeting. Make a bill for something that we actually need and shove a pile of crap in there like 1.4 million to research homosexual prostitution in Vietnam, 600k to study the mating habits of caterpillars or hundreds of millions to build a bridge to nowhere...

Then when the Democrats or Republicans vote as a block against more spending, the other side cries "what about the children" "what about the unemployed" "youre taking away social security" "you dont support our troops" or whatever depending on the intended recipients of the one portion of the fat package that actually mattered.

Government needs to knock that crap off.
Your side and the Republicans are both guilty of it.
It's time to make spending bills that pertain specifically to the item that needs to be funded,
minus pork.

Care to possibly give some examples of pork in this bill? Any? And if you really think about WHY these things are in here, you will know why they bundle bills together. If they didn't, lots of things would never get voted on at all. It's a big country.

I'll give you the bill, look through it.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...213eas.txt.pdf

[Papasito]

First family in Maine for summer weekend

President Barack Obama and his family visited the coast of Maine on Friday for his latest getaway from the pressures of Washington...

Obama, his wife Michelle, and daughters Malia and Sasha touched down at Bar Harbor airport in a smaller version of Air Force One and were greeted by Gov. John Baldacci and his wife, Karen. The Obamas' dog, Bo, and staff had arrived earlier on a separate plane.

The Obamas planned to stay through Sunday, with much time spent enjoying the beauty of Acadia National Park, including its hiking trails and scenic coastal views.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38276667/ns/politics-white_house

Well, Allright! Enjoy the weekend, Mr. Obama, after a job well done!

First lady Michelle Obama, Sasha Obama, President Barack Obama and Malia Obama walk toward Marine One while departing the White House on July 16, 2010 in Washington.


Meanwhile, in the REAL world....

National unemployment numbers

were released Friday that show...there are..fewer jobs to go around. The labor department reports the unemployment rate..9.5 percent in June ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38067672/ns/local_news-norfolk_va

The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United States to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits.
The IMF said Thursday that in addition to cutting government spending, the Obama administration will have to consider raising taxes to get the U.S. deficit down to a manageable level.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38146107

A raft of weak new reports Thursday provided the strongest evidence yet that the recovery is slowing and added to concerns that the nation could be on its way back into recession.
Most notable was a rise in the number of people filing for unemployment benefits for the first time. The four-week average for jobless claims now stands at its highest point since March.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38034014...s_and_economy/

In this June 23, 2010 photo, Frank Wallace, who has been unemployed since May of 2009, is seen during a rally organized by the Philadelphia Unemployment Project, in Philadelphia.

Enjoy your weekend, Mr Obama!
Have a great time, on our tab, for a job well done!

[Stosh]

Gee, no response to my question. Must mean that you either read real slow, or can't answer the question to your favor.

[maxx]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/op...n.html?_r=1&hp
"...
We are now, I fear, in the early stages of a third depression. It will probably look more like the Long Depression than the much more severe Great Depression. But the cost — to the world economy and, above all, to the millions of lives blighted by the absence of jobs — will nonetheless be immense.
And this third depression will be primarily a failure of policy. Around the world — most recently at last weekend’s deeply discouraging G-20 meeting — governments are obsessing about inflation when the real threat is deflation, preaching the need for belt-tightening when the real problem is inadequate spending..."

[maxx]

Lorax, Great idea about bringing the troops home to save some money. Ron Paul has always advocated bringing the troops home from all over the world and claims it could save $500B/year. But Americans decided to vote for someone who wanted to expand the Afghanistan war and not take troops out of Europe, Korea, etc..

And if he had pulled our troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq, the Republicans would have said that he didn't want to defend the nation. Republican propaganda is always negative about Dems these days. Few Republicans will defy the party line. They move in lockstep like the party members of the old USSR.

[maxx]

Yes, war, and defense cost money...surprised? What is the alternative? No defense?

There are more than two choices. We could close down some of our bases especially the ones in Europe.

[maxx]

Wrong again, Batts, it was Bush who was advocating a home for everyone, especially those who were unable to afford one before. I sat there and watched it myself. Don't lie.

He drove people into the arms of unregulated lenders, banks, as a final push over the edge, cash grab, for his corporate buddies. Phil Gramm grinning his crocodile smile all the way. Knowing full well it was unsustainable, and immoral.

And yet Stockton was called the epicenter of the subprime crisis.
http://www.editorial.fnphoto.com/sto...2385-text.html