Downtown Parking Tax

[ghettopalmetto]

Tell us, DC48080, since you "choose" to own a car...

What would happen if you "chose" to NOT own a car, huh? Would you still have your job? Would you still be able to get to the store?

[DC48080]

Tell us, DC48080, since you "choose" to own a car...

What would happen if you "chose" to NOT own a car, huh? Would you still have your job? Would you still be able to get to the store?

That is a ridiculous argument. I choose to keep my job, therefore I choose to own a car. I choose to travel, therefore I own a car. I choose to be able to go out whenever I want to and not have to depend on a bus or train schedule, therefore I own a car.

Most people around here choose to own a car. Too bad if you would rather not, but people are going to live how they want to despite your desires.

It is not the obligation of government to provide every basic need for me to live my life. There is a thing called being self-sufficient. I choose to provide for myself and my family rather than sit around, like some on here, and whine about how there isn't any public transit in Detroit.

[Detroitnerd]

That is a ridiculous argument. Most people around here choose to own a car. Too bad if you would rather not, but people are going to live how they want to despite your desires.

But DC, there IS no choice. You have a choice of driving a car or, for the most part, not having a job. It's not a free choice, as in buying a toaster or not.

It is not the obligation of government to provide every basic need for me to live my life. There is a thing called being self-sufficient. I choose to provide for myself and my family rather than sit around, like some on here, and whine about how there isn't any public transit in Detroit.

I see. You are self-sufficient. So you grow all your own food, purify your own well water, do your own health care, educate your own children, do your fire and police protection yourself ... etc. etc. ???

[DC48080]

But DC, there IS no choice. You have a choice of driving a car or, for the most part, not having a job. It's not a free choice, as in buying a toaster or not.

Having a car is about far more than going to work. As I stated, I own a car to allow me to travel whenever and wherever I want to. I don't want to have to stand out in the rain or snow and wait for a bus or train that may not come on time.

It is certainly a free choice because I could chose not to own a car and spend my free time whining about how bad cars are on the internet. I chose the sensible choice.

[3rdDegreeBurns]

Having a car is about far more than going to work. As I stated, I own a car to allow me to travel whenever and wherever I want to. I don't want to have to stand out in the rain or snow and wait for a bus or train that may not come on time.

It is certainly a free choice because I could chose not to own a car and spend my free time whining about how bad cars are on the internet. I chose the sensible choice.

Did you build the roads too or was that a public investment that enabled your choice? Same is true of public transportation. It's just that we've built far more roads than public transit in the last sixty years.

[DC48080]

I see. You are self-sufficient. So you grow all your own food, purify your own well water, do your own health care, educate your own children, do your fire and police protection yourself ... etc. etc. ???

That is just stupid. You are being absurd. When it comes to transportation, yes, I am self sufficient. Just because you, apparently, wish the government to provide transportation for you doesn't mean that they should.

But I'm going to play along with what appears to be your line of thinking. I want to live in a 12,000 square foot lakefront home. I want the government to provide it for me because I cannot acquire it through my own means.

[Novine]

"That is just stupid. You are being absurd. When it comes to transportation, yes, I am self sufficient. Just because you, apparently, wish the government to provide transportation for you doesn't mean that they should."

In case you didn't notice, your system of transportation can't support itself. If everyone made the choice that you did, our roads would be in even worse shape and the traffic congestion would be much worse than it is today.

[ghettopalmetto]

That is just stupid. You are being absurd. When it comes to transportation, yes, I am self sufficient.

So what kind of pavement mix do you use on the roads that you construct?

And do you hire your own air traffic controllers when you fly [[your own plane, of course)?

[ghettopalmetto]

DC48080 is just a troll, whether he realizes it or not.

Somewhere along the way, someone told him that the ways of life in the 1950s were Correct and unchangeable, and that's managed to stick with him. His paradigm is fixed. He takes for granted what others see as wasteful. He unknowingly passes judgment on others, forcing them to adopt his Lifestyle, lest they be deemed a failure by his standards. He argues against all subsidies--except those that benefit him personally, and makes paper-thin excuses to defend his own inconsistent ideology. Everyone not like him is Wrong--especially people with different colored skin, or different gods, or different funny-sounding languages.

He's just another one of these Asshole Ugly Americans who think the most important issue on earth is their God-Given Right to Cheap Gasoline and a Close Parking Spot.

Thankfully, that breed will be dying off before too long.

[DC48080]

DC48080 is just a troll, whether he realizes it or not.

Somewhere along the way, someone told him that the ways of life in the 1950s were Correct and unchangeable, and that's managed to stick with him. His paradigm is fixed. He takes for granted what others see as wasteful. He unknowingly passes judgment on others, forcing them to adopt his Lifestyle, lest they be deemed a failure by his standards. He argues against all subsidies--except those that benefit him personally, and makes paper-thin excuses to defend his own inconsistent ideology. Everyone not like him is Wrong--especially people with different colored skin, or different gods, or different funny-sounding languages.

He's just another one of these Asshole Ugly Americans who think the most important issue on earth is their God-Given Right to Cheap Gasoline and a Close Parking Spot.

Thankfully, that breed will be dying off before too long.

Funny, I was thinking much of the same thing about you all along throughout this thread. Only thing is I didn't resort to childish name calling. I decided to take the high road.

When you point a finger at somebody you have four fingers pointing back at you. Think about that.

[Detroitnerd]

DC48080 is just a troll, whether he realizes it or not.

I figured as much. Yet I keep trying to engage people. Anyway, I know why you blow your top, and perhaps it's for the best. I do get tired of explaining Urban Planning 101 every day.

[Detroitnerd]

That is just stupid. You are being absurd. When it comes to transportation, yes, I am self sufficient. Just because you, apparently, wish the government to provide transportation for you doesn't mean that they should.

Since you are just replying in general, I am not sure which of my points you are addressing, I really can't respond with any substance to the accusation that the point is stupid and that I am being absurd. If you are talking about the latter point, perhaps it's a little overdrawn to make a point, yes.

But the fact is that if you want to work and shop and live in Detroit with any amount of effectiveness, you have to travel great distances. And if you want to travel great distances around metro Detroit with any effectiveness, you need an automobile. So you can't say with any credibility that the millions of people in and around metro Detroit "chose" cars. That's absurdity.

But I'm going to play along with what appears to be your line of thinking. I want to live in a 12,000 square foot lakefront home. I want the government to provide it for me because I cannot acquire it through my own means.

I don't see how that dovetails with wanting a reasonable transit choice in a city in the richest country in the world.

Fact is, this is one of the only cities in the world that is trying to "get by" without a transit system. And transit systems benefit the whole metroplex. There are solid numbers that you can look at that show that offering a choice of transit [[and not just the personal car vs. the loser cruiser) improves the quality of life, attracts investment and raises incomes far beyond where it travels. But you wouldn't happen to be interested in those facts, would you? You seem to have your mind made up. If that's so, that's sort of bizarre. Why show up just to thump your chest?

The truth about societies is that none of us is "self-sufficient." We are actually fragile, individual creatures, not able to handle much isolation, disease, hunger or violence. That is why we take care of each other as a society. So we can grow up and have people address us kindly, make correct change and generally not burn down our houses. That "self-sufficiency" jive is just a canard.

It isn't? You really ARE self-sufficient? You don't need any help in your day-to-day life?

From a previous thread, here's what it means to be concerned about big government and people who dare to ask for services from government:

That means waking up to an alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy. Then taking a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. Then turning on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration has determined the weather will be like, using satellites designed, built and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Then eating a breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs that have been determined safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, as well as the U.S. Naval Observatory, you can get into a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved auto and set out to work on the roads built by local, state and federal departments of transportation. Before leaving the house, you might drop any mail they have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service. Then you might drop the kids off at public school, and possibly stop to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

After work, you can drive a NHTSA car back home on DOT roads, to a house that didn’t burn down thanks to local and state building codes and mandatory government inspections. I'll be your hosue has not been robbed, thanks to the local police department.

Then, after all that, you can log onto the Internet, developed by the Pentagon, and post all about how government is bad. Very bad.

[Russix]

...

It is not the obligation of government to provide every basic need for me to live my life. There is a thing called being self-sufficient. I choose to provide for myself and my family rather than sit around, like some on here, and whine about how there isn't any public transit in Detroit.

Who provided the freeways and roads??? Opps! Your full of s#!t.

[DetroitDad]

No one is going to come to Detroit to experience it's parking either.

Trying to compete with suburbia for better free parking lots is a waste of time and effort, we will never beat them in that department. What we do stand a chance of eventually beating suburbia at is providing a vital downtown and a good urban environment that people will want to visit despite it's lack of close free parking.

Negative impacts on society are taxed to balance out their impact. Detroit is a urban city, and parking should be taxed if it detracts from the appeal and vitality of the city the way some of these surface lots do.

[Russix]

No one is going to come to Detroit to experience it's parking either.

Trying to compete with suburbia for better free parking lots is a waste of time and effort, we will never beat them in that department. What we do stand a chance of eventually beating suburbia at is providing a vital downtown and a good urban environment that people will want to visit despite it's lack of close free parking.

Negative impacts on society are taxed to balance out their impact. Detroit is a urban city, and parking should be taxed if it detracts from the appeal and vitality of the city the way some of these surface lots do.

Since Novine pointed out that you can't levy a higher tax on them...

Is it possible to outright ban them? I propose a ban on all surface parking anywhere in downtown and along all major arterial roads.

Which suggests prohibiting undeveloped gravel and weed stricken land from being used as parking space in highly visible places. Example: Lower Woodward N and SW of 75. Forcing property owners to build a structure or construct a real parking lot, not knock over buildings and grind them up in to gravel to park on. It makes development on neighboring properties as attractive as building next to crack houses.

[iheartthed]

Since Novine pointed out that you can't levy a higher tax on them...

Well, don't call it a tax. Make it a zoning violation.