Article: Black Flight Hits Detroit

[DumplingDude]

A single individual can't stand up against the horde unless they have superpowers or are the hero of a comic book. You'd almost need a group to band together.

I hate to say it, but my family stayed in a very marginal neighborhood Detroit until '08 thanks to barbed wire fences, alarm services, and by last decade, a surveillance camera system. Unbeknownst to me until adulthood, we also had a mini-arsenal that wasn't only used for hunting, every adult man in the fam was a military veteran or on the police force, and every woman knew how to shoot.

Needless to say, no one is a fan of me moving back into the city by myself. I have zero support. One friend even said, "My answer would be different if you had a boyfriend or husband who could take care of his business if trouble came."

I just left in 2005. Have things gotten that bad?

The unfortunate thing is that too many people in Detroit find this a normal existance.

[DumplingDude]

In a discussion in another thread, about two weeks ago, a certain person stated that people leaving the city are cowards.

http://detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=5709

See post #21

She called people leaving "cowards", "gutless runners" and "mindless rats".

And as far too often happens on this forum, the charge was made by some that people who leave are racists. I wonder if those who made that accusation would apply it to Miss Barham. Was she, a black woman, racist for leaving Detroit?

Nobody, be they black, white or purple wants to put up with the crap that Miss Barham had to endure. No rational person can blame her or anyone else for wanting to live in safety.

I saw that also. Blame the liberal pc crownd for the racism. After all it is them calling people racist for leaving the city. But behold,now they are heading for the hills since they realized that it is no fun to live around people that see you as a target simply because you are doing better than they are or in the case of white flight as the pc crowd likes to call it, for the color of their skin.

But have no fear, the cycle will again start whether it be Southfield or Oakland, Where ever decent people run to in order for their kids to have a decent life,the criminals are not far behind to ruin it.

[English]

The unfortunate thing is that too many people in Detroit find this a normal existance.

If that's all you know, of course it's normal. Normalcy is relative, unfortunately.

[punky1]

Someone earlier questioned why the grandmother was not charged for harboring a criminal. Is it time now to start coming down hard on people who do harbor criminals? Apparently no one wants to "snitch" for a variety of reasons, so maybe making it worse to keep quiet than to speak up has reached its time? Black flight has been going on for a long time. Some of the streets and neighborhoods mentioned brought back memories of some college friends and their families. Edison, Glynn Ct., Atkinson - their families started leaving the neighborhoods and headed downtown to the condos and highrise apts. but then eventually left Detroit altogether. That was back in the 70s. Then co-workers in the 90s vowed to stay in Detroit and raise their families, that they would not abandone the city. That didn't last long and they moved out of Detroit even though their jobs were downtown. It is such a shame what is happening to people who want to stay.

[pffft]

When you think about it, this grandson was a one-man crime wave...he clearly had running buddies, but just taking guys like this out of the mix would help tremendously.

[masterblaster]

Where do these criminals come from? Why are they so prevalent here? Is it lack of parenting? How can one place raise so many criminals? This has been this way for decades, and nobody's come up with a solution.

My opinion is that the solution lies with the family and the church.

[masterblaster]

DumplingDude, white flight did occur. When a city's white population is over 1.5 million in 1950, and drops to 0.1 million in 2000, then it's white flight. In that same period of time, Detroit's black population went from 300,000 to 700,000+.

To DC080, if all the good people move out of the city of Detroit, then how will the city's problems be resolved. Who is going to fix the city? Whose responsibility will it be to fix the city?

After reading the article, I am just so infuriated with my people! This was a woman, who despite being burglarized numerous times, was still committed to the city. I just can't believe the the exent of criminality in this city! I know my ancestors didn't suffer for freedom so that we would act like criminals and treat each other like this. It's embarrassing.

[Hermod]

When you think about it, this grandson was a one-man crime wave...he clearly had running buddies, but just taking guys like this out of the mix would help tremendously.

Ninety days isn't taking him out of the mix.

Ninety years would be more appropriate.

[DC48080]

To DC080, if all the good people move out of the city of Detroit, then how will the city's problems be resolved. Who is going to fix the city? Whose responsibility will it be to fix the city?

I understand what you're saying, but how much is too much to take? Would you stay after putting up with what that poor waman had to put up with? What would you do?

Unfortunately there are many more people like Miss Barham. People should not have to live like she did if there is an alternative available to them.

[laurin]

I understand what you're saying, but how much is too much to take? Would you stay after putting up with what that poor waman had to put up with? What would you do?

Unfortunately there are many more people like Miss Barham. People should not have to live like she did if there is an alternative available to them.

I agree. You are going to have a hard time convincing families to sacrifice their safety and well-being for an ideal. Idealism is one thing when you're single, but with a family things change. You not only have to take into account crime, but the environment in which you raise your children-- what they see everyday, what they normalize.... It's not worth it and good luck convincing them that it is.

[Zacha341]

My parents were more the die-hard stay type. Me, I've seen other things, experienced other living setups, shopped other places, seen other ways of living, worked in the 'burbs for long lengths of times... though I really like the Great Lake State and many things about Detroit... I would not want to go away far like Cali, but sure I could live else where in Michigan easily and readily. Applying reasonable caution where ever I go of course.

I agree. You are going to have a hard time convincing families to sacrifice their safety and well-being for an ideal. Idealism is one thing when you're single, but with a family things change. You not only have to take into account crime, but the environment in which you raise your children-- what they see everyday, what they normalize.... It's not worth it and good luck convincing them that it is.

[Zacha341]

I've been sorta thru with it when two family members of mine had home invasions, while they were home [[they lived) and other senseless crimes like all the youth over the last year... and when Mr. Milt [[of Milts BBQ was killed in a botched robbery on the east side a few years ago)... and other incidence that were close to me or my family. Crime must be addressed or more of use working folk are out of here...

I understand what you're saying, but how much is too much to take? Would you stay after putting up with what that poor waman had to put up with? What would you do?

Unfortunately there are many more people like Miss Barham. People should not have to live like she did if there is an alternative available to them.

[Zacha341]

I like the tired statement of "crime is the same everywhere". When you come home and your stuff is riffled thru and gone it will be a different tune and from then on you never really sleep the same.... It is not the same everywhere!

As for me I want steel doors and a reasonable amount of security no matter where I live but the percentage of crime is not the same everywhere you go.

And either "percentages" mean something or not. Clearly percentage and numbers impact insurance rates, cost and availability of products and services, available amenities, real estate values, new business opportunities, etc.

All of that is effected and influenced by the percentage of crime in a particular given area or city. Like why can't there be a new and used bicycle shop on Puritan and Hamilton??

Why if I want to buy a new mattress at a discounter do I have to go to Farmington Hills on Orchard Lake Rd.? We all know why: high crime and theft.

The unfortunate thing is that too many people in Detroit find this a normal existance.

[fryar]

+1 for the recommendation to live downtown. I did that for three years, from 2005-2008, and felt perfectly safe the whole time. We had a concierge/front desk/door man type deal, and you had to get buzzed in to get into the building. Plus, my building was not as anonymous as I could picture some others being. I had a neighbor who smoked some weed every now and then, but nothing excessive and not in a way you would not be familiar with from dorms. No real problem neighbors or anything like that. There are some decent bars within walking distance as well, although I don't guess it will compare favorably to AA in that respect. You would need a car or a friend with a car to make it out to the burbs for shopping, I would think. That, or start a car share ;-D

Edit: Oh, and I grew up in the complete opposite of a neighborhood where it is considered prudent to retain a small armory, just in case. I should skeer easily.

[p1acebo]

+1 for the recommendation to live downtown. I did that for three years, from 2005-2008, and felt perfectly safe the whole time. We had a concierge/front desk/door man type deal, and you had to get buzzed in to get into the building. Plus, my building was not as anonymous as I could picture some others being. I had a neighbor who smoked some weed every now and then, but nothing excessive and not in a way you would not be familiar with from dorms. No real problem neighbors or anything like that. There are some decent bars within walking distance as well, although I don't guess it will compare favorably to AA in that respect. You would need a car or a friend with a car to make it out to the burbs for shopping, I would think. That, or start a car share ;-D

Edit: Oh, and I grew up in the complete opposite of a neighborhood where it is considered prudent to retain a small armory, just in case. I should skeer easily.

+1 to living downtown as well, I currently live downtown and love it!

[DetroitDad]

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

[Ravine]

Wow. Dream House, indeed. I hope you are budgeting in many, many thousands of dollars toward that room.
See, if I had that kind of dough, I would just move to a really nice, safe area, and to hell with outfitting my house like the goddam U.S.S. Enterprise.
The important marriage is the one to your wife, not the one to the city.
In each case, however, things can look much different once "the bloom comes off the rose."

[Zacha341]

Hey DDad... you de' man. Have my back too! Please, please as I strive to stay! I have my few things hidden in odd places and then there are the computers one uses. All I can say regarding that is back up your stuff and don't buy HOT stolen computers. Back the stuff up on a portable drive and hide that drive. You can get 320 GB portable hard drives for under $75 at Micro Center in Troy all the time. Buy two, one to do a main back up then back that up. Keep drives in separate places. Never leave both of them out.

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

[Zacha341]

I took a Sunday drive down Ms. Barham's block and I must say Atkinson street IS hit! Her home was on the east end of the block closest to the Lodge and is the pretty rough end. I did not know the area had gone so far down. No wonder the frequency break-ins especially on her side of the street which backs into Clairmount!

I looked down the alley [[from my car) and it was partially blocked by huge mountains of refuse, illegal dumpings and impassable. Atkinson improves as you go west, with a decent stretch off of 14th street. It was sad to see so many homes vacant in the area off Byron, and on Clairmount, many not even boarded up!!

Just wide open to the elements and the ubiquitous busy-bee scrappers...

While this phenomenon is nothing new, I think this is an interesting story. We frequently hear calls for people to stick things out in Detroit, but after this woman's experience, it is hard to blame her for leaving Detroit.

I think this article highlights, above all, that without much improved public safety, Detroit will continue to decline. If a single, middle class woman cannot live in a Detroit neighborhood without being continually subject to crime, the city has little hope of attracting young professionals to the neighborhoods. There is truly a public safety crisis in the city.

For the rest of the article, click here.

[Hermod]

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

Dad, I hate to tell you this, but "man traps" are illegal. You can be criminally charged with "imprisonment" and "endangerment" and the perp can sue you civilly for any injuries or mental suffering he endures. In a perfect world, we should have the legal doctrine of "just desserts" where anyone in the commission of a felony loses all rights to sue for a tort. Unfortunately, by letting lawyers run our judicial system, if the perp trips on an obstacle in your house and is injured, he can sue you.

[daddeeo]

It's amazing to me how some folks around here complain when Detroit is
described as a hell hole. The city is more than downtown ballparks and social milieus.
When you can't even leave for work without being in fear of being ripped off
or need bars on your windows, what kind of place is that?
This has been going on for over thirty years in many parts of the city. No wonder
people have left on flocks.
Toss in drug gangs, crummy schools, high taxes and poor police response and a corrupt city government, it shouldn't be such a big surprise.

[GOAT]

Ravine offers the best advice. What is best if for you and your wife or husband nothing more. You don't owe a city anything. In fact they should exist to serve you not the other way around.

[Zacha341]

Hah, that's a point. No tricks or traps. Just strive to preserve your life if it comes to that.

To have a record of activities, I've heard that if an intruders entering your home while you're there it's best to call 911 and keep them on the phone [[you can put the phone down once you've explained the situation and they will// may record the activities) and arm yourself [[if applicable) but DON'T pursue any intruder, and only shoot if they come into your space.

Some advocate a warning shot [[bird shot as the first load for a shot gun). Some thieves will bail once they hear the characteristic "rack" of a pump-action shotgun [[if you have that)...

In any event you have 911 hearing the whole thing.

Going after a intruder is A. dangerous [[unless you are tactically trained) as they can take the gun away from you especially a shot gun which leads and can be quickly grabbed. B. Pursuing an intruder outside the home with a loaded weapon drawn endangers others. C. And unless you're "Dirty Harry", if you get into a real-life shoot-out you may not survive [[a warning shot and one final shot if needed is best - which is why for women small-format shot guns work as aiming isn't a big issue).

Dad, I hate to tell you this, but "man traps" are illegal. You can be criminally charged with "imprisonment" and "endangerment" and the perp can sue you civilly for any injuries or mental suffering he endures. In a perfect world, we should have the legal doctrine of "just desserts" where anyone in the commission of a felony loses all rights to sue for a tort. Unfortunately, by letting lawyers run our judicial system, if the perp trips on an obstacle in your house and is injured, he can sue you.

[evergreen]

Angelo Henderson, WCHB talk show host, featured a discussion of this article on part of his show today. [[I missed the first hour which apparently centered on the young lady who was murdered on I-96.) He conducted "exit interviews" with people who had left Detroit. People were very frank; crime, taxes, schools, insurance, and quality of life issues were the factors that drove most of them out of the city. Most of them saw nothing on the horizon that would make them return to the city.

Listen for yourself, it rebroadcasts at 10:00 p.m.

[SWMAP]

Let's see: Grandma Christian was hiding James under the bed upstairs after he B&E'd Johnette Barham several times and torched her house, and Mertilla Jones [[grandmother of Aiyana Jones) was hiding Chauncey Owens upstairs on Lillibridge.

That's where to look - upstairs!

I guess its because the DPD is so militaristic.