Vigilante, hero, or killer?

[Retroit]

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

[R8RBOB]

You obviously don't live in Detroit. The mayor, police nor city council have done anything to stop crime. This may be the only answer. Hope you're never the victim of not only one crime, but multiple crimes. Good luck with the rose colored glasses.

If you are living in Detroit then you are living in the part that would be considered "Fantasy Island"

Stop crime!!! You expect the mayor, the police and city council to "stop crime." May you should added Moses, the Lord Almighty and Barack Obama as the Messiah in the mission to stop crime. Crime has been around since the beginning of time. It was a crime for George W. Bush to go into Iraq. It was a crime for Bernie Madoff to swindle 50 billion dollars from his investors. It was a crime for Bodie and Poot to kill Wallace. [[Ok, I love the Wire so I had to throw that one out there)

Here is one group of people you forgot to add in the war on crime: the citizens. If that guy neighbors cared for their neighbor then they would have been looking out for his house and may have prevented one of those three burglaries.

What that dude did was wrong, period. I could accepted him pistol-whipping him to teach him a lesson. C'mon the guy was 51 year old and tired from running. I doubt he would have been much of a challenge. The guy Tigh Croff [[it would have cool if his name was Saul Tigh) told police that the dead man was in his backyard with an another guy, not his house. Again, was he right in killing the man? No.

[R8RBOB]

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

What is it to said? If the criminal is caught we all know that he or she is going to jail, PERIOD. There is nothing to be said. What we have here is a case of a citizen going Paul Kersey and that was the mistake he made. Let's not get it twisted. An able 31 year old shot and killed a 53 year old who was tired from running hence the surrender. Couldn't he had whupped his ass to send a message? Isn't that the police do after they have to chase a suspect? You don't see them shooting down the suspect after they have them cornered do you?

[ejames01]

"nary a word is said". People complain ALL the time about crime on this board. You need to stop making things up.

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

[gazhekwe]

Ms G, in response to your post #105 about me not living in Detroit...Bingo, but I live a mile and half north in Southfield. I can see what goes on and have many friends and acquaintances as well as this forum to keep me apprised. Why do you see Detroit as so much worse than, say, Southfield?

I do not see how Mr. Tigh's committing murder, which is a crime, makes it any better for him or for Detroit. One crime does not justify another. It just adds another criminal to the already overburdened justice system.

[daddeeo]

What are the odds that he gets convicted?
I'd say "zero".

[smudge pot]

An able 31 year old shot and killed a 53 year old who was tired from running hence the surrender.

Update on old joke: Two guys, Tom and Dick, went camping. Next morning they wake up, get out of the tent, barefoot, and start frying up some breakfast. Suddenly a bear comes crashing through the trees into the clearing. Tom starts putting on his shoes:

Dick: "Why are you putting on your shoes, Tom, you know you can't outrun the bear?"

Tom: "Who needs to outrun the bear, Dick, all I need to do is outrun you".

Dick: "No problemo, Tom, if the bear catches me, I'll just stand there and act like a smart-ass."

Tom: "Dick, you're a genius, see ya!"

[lefty]

A Hero Killer.

But you can't run out of your house and shoot someone unless in life danger, inside yes.
I bet he get 20 years.

[R8RBOB]

Mr. Croff's frustrations are felt by all Detroiters who have been victimized by these parasites that prey on hard-working tax-paying citizens. Before we start to label Mr. Croff of anything understand he shot a person who was in his backyard. Now I know that if I see someone in my backyard I am going to question his reason for being on my property. The two men being in his backyard for no reason only means that they were up to no good. As it stood it was trespassing. He got his gun and proceed to chase them after they left his property. The chase should have ended unless he suspected that they were the ones responsible for the prior break-ins.

Mr. Croff could claim self-defense but he has a permit to carry a firearm and one would have to take classes prior to acquiring a CCW permit. He knew once he pulled that trigger he was in a world of hurt. Had this been a police officer who had gone the "Dirty Harry" route the same things would said. There are no winners here. Mr. Croff and Mr. Silas have both loss and their families will suffer the losses as well.

[ct_alum]

Every legal gun owner does not fit into the neat package of being a NRA right-wing nut job. This is ESPECIALLY true of Detroiters who may choose to arm themselves in their homes etc. for self-protection. I am NOT justifying what happened in this specific case, but the right-winged gun nut "box" does not fit or sum up every gun owner or every instance to use lethal force.

Zacha341: Who was talking about gun owners? I was talking about everyone [[gun owner or not) who was reveling in the cold-blooded murder of a human being. You are the one equating gun ownership with right wing nut jobs, not me. BTW, chasing someone down the street and shooting them after they had surrendered is NOT "self protection". - The latest version is that the victim had not even entered the home, he was simply standing in the yard. Tresspassimg is not a capital crime in Michigan; if you think that it should be, come over to my house and stand in my yard..............................

[Retroit]

"nary a word is said". People complain ALL the time about crime on this board. You need to stop making things up.

I guess I need to spend more time looking for those complaints. It is my recollection that criminals are usually excused based on their socio-racio-economic hardships. For example, if a person robs a store, he does it to feed his family. If a person robs a house, he does it because times are tough economically. If crime is higher among African-Americans, it is because they have been oppressed for 300 years. etc.

[gazhekwe]

There are lots of rants on here about people who take things that don't belong to them. Discussion goes both ways but the weight seems to be in favor of people who have zero tolerance for crime ranging right on up to the death penalty for being caught in the yard and leaving when challenged.

[R8RBOB]

I guess I need to spend more time looking for those complaints. It is my recollection that criminals are usually excused based on their socio-racio-economic hardships. For example, if a person robs a store, he does it to feed his family. If a person robs a house, he does it because times are tough economically. If crime is higher among African-Americans, it is because they have been oppressed for 300 years. etc.

After reading this I can't stop laughing. Criminals excused for their behavior. I guess the jails are really housing units for the unprivileged. BTW, I'm still laughing.

[gazhekwe]

Discussing possible solutions, like education and job opportunities, is not making excuses. Criminal behavior is inexcusable, but one can promote and work toward changing things to reduce criminal behavior.

[R8RBOB]

Discussing possible solutions, like education and job opportunities, is not making excuses. Criminal behavior is inexcusable, but one can promote and work toward changing things to reduce criminal behavior.

You shouldn't try to make sense in what the poster posted. The statement was filled with hyperbole. The poster doesn't believe that nonsense unless he or she are from Mars or some distant asteroid.

[jtf1972]

There are many different excuses out there for criminal behavior. They can all basically be broken down to ethnic, social and personal. The persons who use ethnicity as an excuse/reason are simply ignorant. The two men that broke into this man's home were not Bill Cosby and Kareem Abdul-Jabar. Why? Because they have money! To cite the desperation caused by socioeconomic factors should not be dismissed, but you cannot reasonably deny that they are there. The men who did break into the house were not there stealing Cheerios and ham sandwiches to feed their families. However what are the conditions that led them to be the criminal behavior? Is it wrong to attempt to fix those problems?

[DetroitDad]

There are many different excuses out there for criminal behavior. They can all basically be broken down to ethnic, social and personal. The persons who use ethnicity as an excuse/reason are simply ignorant. The two men that broke into this man's home were not Bill Cosby and Kareem Abdul-Jabar. Why? Because they have money! To cite the desperation caused by socioeconomic factors should not be dismissed, but you cannot reasonably deny that they are there. The men who did break into the house were not there stealing Cheerios and ham sandwiches to feed their families. However what are the conditions that led them to be the criminal behavior? Is it wrong to attempt to fix those problems?

The web is blamed, but the spider is really your problem now.

I agree, we need to clean out the spiderwebs that have gone up all around Detroit.

[Retroit]

I guarantee that when Mr. Croff goes to trial, the Prosecution will go to great lengths to portray the burglar as an poor, underprivileged, unemployed African-American who was a good family man and, despite a long history of drug-addiction and criminal activity, was sincerely trying to get his life back on track, until it was brutally and mercilessly ended one night at 2:30 a.m. when he just so happened to be minding his own business taking an early morning stroll and inadvertently ended up in Mr. Croff's backyard.

[R8RBOB]

I guarantee that when Mr. Croff goes to trial, the Prosecution will go to great lengths to portray the burglar as an poor, underprivileged, unemployed African-American who was a good family man and, despite a long history of drug-addiction and criminal activity, was sincerely trying to get his life back on track, until it was brutally and mercilessly ended one night at 2:30 a.m. when he just so happened to be minding his own business taking an early morning stroll and inadvertently ended up in Mr. Croff's backyard.

I will play along with this. Let's say they do exactly what you posted. Lawyers are known to say or do anything to win their case so okay they come up with a cover story to convict Mr. Croff. No one put Mr. Croff in his situation but Mr. Croff. Once Mr. Croff made his presence known to the two men and they ran off that should have been the end of it. He didn't need to chase after them. Mr. Croff took it too far and now he will pay the price. Like I stated earlier, everyone loses on this one.

[9mile&seneca]

"You are referring to Bernie Goetz. The whole story is easily found online" Bernie Goetz has a better rate of rehabilitation than any penal system in the country. One of the four "Utes" that tried to victimise him, Darrell Cabey, has been on his best behavior ever since the encounter.The other three have recidivated. One out of four aint bad.

[smudge pot]

Discussing possible solutions, like education

“What are you going to do,� Herbert Silas, of Detroit, reportedly asked, his hands still in the air, “shoot me?�

Think of what a guy like this could have done with some education: fifty-three years old, still inquisitive, still probing. He gave his life in the selfless pursuit of knowledge. Thanks to him, we now know what not to say.

[R8RBOB]

Second - regarding sitizen involvement, isn't that what happened here? A citizen stopped this guy from committing any more crimes?

So, that is the answer I suppose. To stop the monsters who prey on us we have to become the monster. Would it help your thinking to know that the guy didn't break into his house? Yes, he and his comrade was in Croff's backyard and yes they were probably were going to break in but he caught them in the backyard and they fled. Stop!!! They were running, not robbing. Though Mr. Croff had been a victim of previous break-ins, he was not the victim this time. Mr. Croff chose to become a monster and now he is no longer the victim.

[stasu1213]

I am glad that he had shot the intruder. One less fool to worry about. The intruder should had kept his A@# running but wanted to sniff his own piss. I say shoot any intruder who comes into your home then forgive him later

[ejames01]

Are you willing to commit murder to keep someone from stealing your car radio?

We have to become whatever we need to become to stop these people who think it's ok to commit crimes against us. Don't care who you are, don't care what you think. Don't want any trouble, don't mess with me. Once againe, good luck to you and yours!!!!

[R8RBOB]

Are you willing to commit murder to keep someone from stealing your car radio?

Don't take Ms. G seriously. Killing a human being is not the same as killing a roach. Most rational thinking human beings know that killing a human is wrong unless they are threating your life. Ms. G knows that killing someone for stealing her car radio would result in prison time since her life was not in jeopardy. All talk or text....