A National Disgrace: Documentary on Detroit Public Schools

[DetroitTeacher]

I couldn't recruit a fruit fly to DPS. Too many issues that mess with teachers and that block teachers from actually teaching. My colleagues in other districts are trying to recruit me away from DPS but I love the kids too much [[yeah, I know...kids are kids, but there is something about kids in DPS that I can't let go of). There are other teachers just like me in DPS but no one ever hears about us. The public only hears the negative. We also have wonderful kids. No one ever hears of them, either. We only hear about the kids who cause trouble.

One wouldn't know about me and I'd never qualify for merit pay because, on average, the kids who do well on MME and other tests are going to Cass, Renaissance, CMA, and King. My kids aren't focused on a test. They are focused on their other issues and that causes them to do poorly on standardized testing [[which everyone would use to base my merit pay). If you really want to know about standardized testing and today's kids, check out Ian Jukes. He makes a pretty good case for what's wrong with standardized testing [[as it relates to our kids and what we are really preparing them for).

[Zacha341]

Indeed despite great obstacles you are a 'teacher' and I celebrate your efforts! Thank you for all that you do and have done.

OK, I was refraining from posting here for obvious reasons but I'll take a shot at trying to explain why I think I have success with the kids. Bottom line is...I care and they know it. I don't accept the fact that I get a paycheck whether they learn or not. I make them make me earn my money. I do not want anyone to think that I am the most awesome thing since sliced bread. I don't have any answers but have just found what works best for me and my kids. Because of the following, I usually have kids who will bend over backwards and do what I ask of them. They know it's for their benefit because I already have my education. This is just what I came up with at 10:30 at night. I am sure my kids could provide you with more insight.

For the record, I am a "she teacher".

1) I treat each and every kid as if I gave birth to them. They deserve that respect. They know I care and I am there to kick ass if they don't succeed [[just like I would with my own kid).
2) I break things down. I know not all kids learn the same. I treat each kid as an individual and help them make goals for their personal gain, not to conquer some test.
3) I use lots of humor. I try and keep things in the class interesting [[you'd be amazed at how the kids get into the Anglo Saxons and Beowulf because I wear a silly Viking helmet when I give the lesson and read Beowulf).
4) I understand that some kids can multi-task and can't work in complete silence. I don't ban music in my class, as long as it isn't disruptive to others.
5) I understand that life happens. My kids have enough issues and responsibilities at home without my adding to it. I offer them class time to complete work.
6) I expect the best from them. I also demand that they expect the best from themselves.
7) I stopped calling their homes. I take care of issues in house. My classroom is like Vegas. What happens there, stays there. You'd be suprised what my kids face when they got home because a teacher called their house and was concerned about an issue the kid was having.
8) I care about them when they leave school [[not just the building, but in life). I keep in touch with my kids. The kids I currently have know this because it's all over my Facebook. They know I'll take the time to proofread and edit college papers. They know I'll help them with another teacher's work.
9) They trust me. I trust them.
10) If they need something, I care enough to make sure they have it. Mittens, hats, paper, food, a shoulder to cry on, tampons and toilet paper...they know it's in my room and if they need it, they can go get it. No need to ask.
11) I smile at them, cry with them, laugh with them, hug them, and am ready to kick their butts if they screw up.
12) I read everything they turn in, grade it, provide feedback...and do this all in a 3 day turnaround. They know they can count on me to set them on the right path if they don't understand something.
13) I always let them know what their grade is and what they need to do to improve. There are no secrets in my gradebook. I post grades on the wall...
14) I will go into the hall and drag them into my class [[or irritate them so much that they go to whatever class they are supposed to be in).
15) I am a believer in the "I do, we do together, you do with support and you do alone" method of teaching. The kids know they have the support and the objectives are clear.
16) If they don't get something right, I don't chastize or ignore the mistake. I take corrective measures and let the kids correct their mistakes [[they usually figure out what needs to be corrected before I even say anything).
17) If someone asks me a question, no matter how personal, I am honest with them. This is given back in their honesty with me.
18) I tell them personal stories [[much of what I relate, they are experiencing just at a different level). They know that I was a kid once [[and totally hated school).
19) They know I love my job. They know what teachers are doing what's best for the kids and they know what teachers are just there to collect a check.
20). They know I love them.
21) I come from their neighborhood. It was where I was raised. They know I have a vested interest in their well-being because I am "one of them".
22) When I take classes, I include them in what I am learning. I share with them the syllabus, I share with them topics of discussion. They know I am still learning and they appreciate the fact that I have tons of homework, too. I feel their pain.
23) I don't want them to agree with me simply because I am an adult or their teacher. I want and ask them to challenge me, to think for themselves, to have an opinion, to voice that opnion. I value what they have to say.
24) I know my stuff. The kids know that I know the literature. They know that I expect them to see something different in it than I do [[after all, I have a good...let's just say 25 years on em and have had different experiences). They can also tell you what teachers don't know jack about the subject matter.
25) I realize that there are no other kids like my kids. They know that I don't want to teach anywhere else. I appreciate what they go through just to GET to school and welcome them into the room each day. I also know all of their names. It's no small task with the multitude of pronunciations and the twin population!

[Wesley Mouch]

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

I think you are missing two points....

1) It may be true that the charter outcomes haven't been better than DPS*. But the existence of charters has encouraged the status-quo districts and teacher guilds to accept some innovation. This has likely been good for all students

2) Individual results may vary. Charters allow easier innovation. If the results are indeed the same*, there may be more excellent outcomes, and more miserable outcomes, averaging out to not much different. Its not always the average that's the best measurement.

* I'd like to see a good reference on this 'no better outcome'. Its used frequently, and seems to be gospel to those who it soothes, but I think the truth is a bit more nuanced.

[detroitbob66]

A National Disgrace? I am not quite sure about that because the nation doesn't have to live by and see this stuff everyday like I do, as well as many of you do
This is a Detroit Disgrace for sure:

[maxx]

I think you are missing two points....

1) It may be true that the charter outcomes haven't been better than DPS*. But the existence of charters has encouraged the status-quo districts and teacher guilds to accept some innovation. This has likely been good for all students

2) Individual results may vary. Charters allow easier innovation. If the results are indeed the same*, there may be more excellent outcomes, and more miserable outcomes, averaging out to not much different. Its not always the average that's the best measurement.

What innovations are you referring to?

[Wesley Mouch]

What innovations are you referring to?

I should have said 'changes'. Some changes will be innovations, some will be stupidity & failures. But new ideas in every and all areas should be possible. The current oligopoly [[School Boards / Teacher's Unions) doesn't have all the answers.

Do they have some good answers. Yes. Of course. Successes in public education should be celebrated. But that doesn't justify it being a monopoly on power. Schools most obviously need the freedom to be creative, innovative, and able to try things that might fail -- or succeed -- without being stopped by the status quo.

Students first. Everyone else doesn't matter. Good teachers will survive. Good administrators will survive.

[maxx]

Here's all it takes.

http://www.stateline.org/live/detail...ntentId=213218

” A single faculty member engages personally with the student over successive school years. Class sizes are 16, compared to an average of 28 in Detroit’s regular public schools.
The involvement with kids has gone as far as sleepovers at faculty homes for kids facing family crises. Several of the graduating class are essentially homeless, drifting from one relative or friend’s home to another..."

[DetroitTeacher]

28 in a class for regular DPS schools? Try 50! I have multiple classes of 50 kids [[over half of which have learning disabilities). I would be in dreamland if I had 28 kids in a class! I'm not the only one with numbers such as this. I am sure I could do a much better job of relating to the kids if I only had 28 in a class. With 50 kids, I am lucky to keep the peace.

[fryar]

28 in a class for regular DPS schools? Try 50! I have multiple classes of 50 kids [[over half of which have learning disabilities). I would be in dreamland if I had 28 kids in a class! I'm not the only one with numbers such as this. I am sure I could do a much better job of relating to the kids if I only had 28 in a class. With 50 kids, I am lucky to keep the peace.

The article that quote is from is from 2007. But yeah, no wonder you can't recruit even fruit flies to DPS.

[DetroitTeacher]

I was at DPS in 2007, too. I have NEVER had 28 kids in a class [[I'd have thought I died and gone to Heaven). I think in 2007, I had upwards of 40 kids in each class. I have had in excess of 60 kids in each class before, too. For those of you that say that college profs do this all the time...wonderful. They also have giant lecture halls, TAs to grade papers [[if they assign a paper), and can boot someone out if they aren't acting right. I don't have any of that. It's JUST me, a small room, and some kids who act like they don't have the sense God gave them. There is no kicking them out in public school. I have to deal with it and deal with it immediately [[which takes away from those kids who really want to learn).

[maxx]

Are those numbers true for ninth grade classes?

[Patrick]

And you wonder why the DPS is losing students

[DetroitTeacher]

I am assuming they have oversized classes, too. I have all seniors this year and am not at a school with 9th graders so I don't have contact with those numbers.

Are those numbers true for ninth grade classes?

[JenniferL]

My nieces attend public schools in a middle-ring suburb that isn't one of the top tier districts but is still well regarded by the general public. Class sizes there average around 30 students, so there's no way the DPS average is 28. During the brief time in the 1990s when I worked in a Detroit elementary school, 35 kids in a class was typical but we had a big problem with tardiness and absences, so on any given day about 28 of the 35 would actually be in class. So perhaps that's where these class size numbers are coming from?

[firstandten]

I believe there is a perception of safety among charter schools that is mistaken for academic positive outcomes. To some parents safety may rank higher in what they are looking for in a school than even academic achievement. And by that I mean the school building and classrooms may be safe, but the environment just outside of the school and knowing different gangs share the same school may make some parents fearful.

[DetroitTeacher]

I average 98% attendance on any given day. I think it's easier at the HS level to have larger classes but at the elementary schools, that would be a shame. Research has proven that smaller classes raises student achievement.

My nieces attend public schools in a middle-ring suburb that isn't one of the top tier districts but is still well regarded by the general public. Class sizes there average around 30 students, so there's no way the DPS average is 28. During the brief time in the 1990s when I worked in a Detroit elementary school, 35 kids in a class was typical but we had a big problem with tardiness and absences, so on any given day about 28 of the 35 would actually be in class. So perhaps that's where these class size numbers are coming from?

[maxx]

An interesting innovation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0pnxsdrIAk

http://www.project-meditation.org/a_...n_schools.html

[DetroitTeacher]

Maxx: Great idea but I think I just need to start imbibing in the good ol' white boys [[Jack, Jim, and Jose)

Actually, my kids are pretty decent [[we all still have our days). it just seems like every fool is piled into 2 classes and those happen to be my largest of the day. I run a pretty tight ship and treat the kids with respect so, for the most part, they return the favor. I have issues with grading papers in a timely fashion [[it's hard to grade 240 essay-type papers with a quick turnover and remain sane).

[Danny]

By reading Detroitteachers, comments [[ as known the 25 amendments of teacher hood), she knows that students in her DPS classroom, want to suceed in life and get into the college and the working to pursue their American Dream. Detroitteacher don't want her students to falter but to rise above from the ghettohoods of Detroit. Detroitteacher doesn't see DPS as a national disgrace, but a national success.

I look a female principal from Cass Tech High School keeping her 2200 students in line to achive their educational goals. She works day and night to keep Cass Tech's reputation going. The school's football team just won their Michigan State Division I championship. As the end Cass Tech has 97% graduation rate. More than any other DPS high school in the city.

Nolan, I tell you this. don't you ever play race cards against Detroit Public Schools. The school system will not die. It will go on forever!


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

For I am DPS graduate Cody High School Class of 2003.

For the 99 percenters and Guy Fawkes, Neda, I miss you so.

[DetroitTeacher]

No, I see DPS as a disgrace. I see my kids as something entirely different. DPS doesn't care about the kids. If they did, they wouldn't pack so many into a room and expect learning to take place. They don't give me the tools to do my job. We have netbooks in the building [[in locked storage areas) but no one here has the key to set them free and allow the kids to use them! That is DPS's doing, not ours.

I'd also like to know what the "25 amendments of teacher hood" {sic} are. Never heard of them before.

Danny, please don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I mean because, by your post, you have me all wrong. Also, race has nothing to do with DPS dying. It's the mismanagement that has gone on for far too long that will secure the fate of DPS.

By reading Detroitteachers, comments [[ as known the 25 amendments of teacher hood), she knows that students in her DPS classroom, want to suceed in life and get into the college and the working to pursue their American Dream. Detroitteacher don't want her students to falter but to rise above from the ghettohoods of Detroit. Detroitteacher doesn't see DPS as a national disgrace, but a national success.

I look a female principal from Cass Tech High School keeping her 2200 students in line to achive their educational goals. She works day and night to keep Cass Tech's reputation going. The school's football team just won their Michigan State Division I championship. As the end Cass Tech has 97% graduation rate. More than any other DPS high school in the city.

Nolan, I tell you this. don't you ever play race cards against Detroit Public Schools. The school system will not die. It will go on forever!


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

For I am DPS graduate Cody High School Class of 2003.

For the 99 percenters and Guy Fawkes, Neda, I miss you so.

[Modusvivendi]

The poor results that you see in DPS are especially sad given that DPS spends aroudn $13k per student, which is several thousand dollars higher than the national average. What strikes me is that Detroit is a city where nearly half of the adult population is functionally illiterate, and in that type of environment there is not going to be a strong social/cultural support for education from the parents and community. That kind of support is essential for a child's education -- even the best teacher can only do so much. Obviously DPS is a broken organization with many problems, but reforming it is only half of the equation. How do you get a city with abysmal levels of education and limited economic prospects to instill in their kids the value of studying hard and getting a good education?

[artds]

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

to be fair, if detroiters would vote for someone just because the have "reverend" in front of their name, then the electorate is just as bogus. That really says a lot about the people who are putting these "leaders" into office.

[maxx]

Maxx: Great idea but I think I just need to start imbibing in the good ol' white boys [[Jack, Jim, and Jose)

The TM is for the kids lol.

Actually, my kids are pretty decent [[we all still have our days). it just seems like every fool is piled into 2 classes and those happen to be my largest of the day. I run a pretty tight ship and treat the kids with respect so, for the most part, they return the favor. I have issues with grading papers in a timely fashion [[it's hard to grade 240 essay-type papers with a quick turnover and remain sane).[/QUOTE]

[I hear you]

[Danny]

Detroitteacher! Have read your comments carefully. Your comments are postive and I've answered in a critique manner. I can either agree or disagree your comments. As a Detroit Public Schoolteacher you see the everyday at risk kids and the kids trying to suceed in life. As I, former Detroit Public School kid see these everyday problems from the at risk kids to sucessful kids. I was a having a hard time making friends those kids. Some of them are more interested of pimping women, doing drugs, going gang cliques rather than going to college.

You are there in DPS, Detroitteacher! because you want to turn those kids around so they can graduate and head to college and achive the American dream. After 7 years from Cody High School, some of my teachers are still teaching while others completed their course and retire. Keep on fighting, Detroitteacher with the power of education. Open the child's mind and supply them with history, art, science, language, math, poltical science, home economics. And when they graduate, they take those skills with them and became teachers, not only to other schools, but also to their families and friends.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

I'm not Bill Cosby. But someone needs a boost of faith, grace and hope to all the teachers, parents and even polticians in Detroit.


For the 99 Percenters and Spirit of Guy Fawkes.

Neda, I miss you so.

[ordinary]

I listened to the interview of Dan Rather. Were those statements correct about the amount of money stolen from DPS? Has anybody been held accountable?