Article: Black Flight Hits Detroit

[DetroitDad]

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

[Ravine]

Wow. Dream House, indeed. I hope you are budgeting in many, many thousands of dollars toward that room.
See, if I had that kind of dough, I would just move to a really nice, safe area, and to hell with outfitting my house like the goddam U.S.S. Enterprise.
The important marriage is the one to your wife, not the one to the city.
In each case, however, things can look much different once "the bloom comes off the rose."

[Zacha341]

Hey DDad... you de' man. Have my back too! Please, please as I strive to stay! I have my few things hidden in odd places and then there are the computers one uses. All I can say regarding that is back up your stuff and don't buy HOT stolen computers. Back the stuff up on a portable drive and hide that drive. You can get 320 GB portable hard drives for under $75 at Micro Center in Troy all the time. Buy two, one to do a main back up then back that up. Keep drives in separate places. Never leave both of them out.

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

[Hermod]

Yes, stick to the "safe" neighbohoods around Downtown for now. The police seem to respond a little better down here. Those other areas will be saved.... but not yet. My wife and I understand that we are urban pioneers, living in conditions that are far from ideal. But, we take one day at a time because it matters to us.

A new trend is just putting steel shutters on your windows, like they use at the corner store. I saw some on a couple of Detroit homes that were painted to match the house, and actually looked much better than bars. You could even paint them to look like windows, if you'd like. They will also protect you from storms and are good for vacations. You can open and close them from a iphone, you can!

English, I got your back, we need to pick the same neighborhood or something. My dream home has a panic room of sorts... it looks like a closet, and it's where irresistible valuables are kept, and the burgler will know this. What he won't know is that the room has steel shutters that slam shut when I'm not there, while the room fills with thick sleepy fog, and the police are called while some poor rip off of a Saw video recording is played. No more three or five hits on a block before they catch him, and I don't even care how long DPD takes to respond, I'll have a nice chat with him or her before they get there.

Seriously, this is budgeted into our savings for our future home. We don't believe in buying something you can't properly protect.

Nobody mess with the DetroitDad....Bwhahahah

Dad, I hate to tell you this, but "man traps" are illegal. You can be criminally charged with "imprisonment" and "endangerment" and the perp can sue you civilly for any injuries or mental suffering he endures. In a perfect world, we should have the legal doctrine of "just desserts" where anyone in the commission of a felony loses all rights to sue for a tort. Unfortunately, by letting lawyers run our judicial system, if the perp trips on an obstacle in your house and is injured, he can sue you.

[daddeeo]

It's amazing to me how some folks around here complain when Detroit is
described as a hell hole. The city is more than downtown ballparks and social milieus.
When you can't even leave for work without being in fear of being ripped off
or need bars on your windows, what kind of place is that?
This has been going on for over thirty years in many parts of the city. No wonder
people have left on flocks.
Toss in drug gangs, crummy schools, high taxes and poor police response and a corrupt city government, it shouldn't be such a big surprise.

[Zacha341]

Hah, that's a point. No tricks or traps. Just strive to preserve your life if it comes to that.

To have a record of activities, I've heard that if an intruders entering your home while you're there it's best to call 911 and keep them on the phone [[you can put the phone down once you've explained the situation and they will// may record the activities) and arm yourself [[if applicable) but DON'T pursue any intruder, and only shoot if they come into your space.

Some advocate a warning shot [[bird shot as the first load for a shot gun). Some thieves will bail once they hear the characteristic "rack" of a pump-action shotgun [[if you have that)...

In any event you have 911 hearing the whole thing.

Going after a intruder is A. dangerous [[unless you are tactically trained) as they can take the gun away from you especially a shot gun which leads and can be quickly grabbed. B. Pursuing an intruder outside the home with a loaded weapon drawn endangers others. C. And unless you're "Dirty Harry", if you get into a real-life shoot-out you may not survive [[a warning shot and one final shot if needed is best - which is why for women small-format shot guns work as aiming isn't a big issue).

Dad, I hate to tell you this, but "man traps" are illegal. You can be criminally charged with "imprisonment" and "endangerment" and the perp can sue you civilly for any injuries or mental suffering he endures. In a perfect world, we should have the legal doctrine of "just desserts" where anyone in the commission of a felony loses all rights to sue for a tort. Unfortunately, by letting lawyers run our judicial system, if the perp trips on an obstacle in your house and is injured, he can sue you.

[Zacha341]

I took a Sunday drive down Ms. Barham's block and I must say Atkinson street IS hit! Her home was on the east end of the block closest to the Lodge and is the pretty rough end. I did not know the area had gone so far down. No wonder the frequency break-ins especially on her side of the street which backs into Clairmount!

I looked down the alley [[from my car) and it was partially blocked by huge mountains of refuse, illegal dumpings and impassable. Atkinson improves as you go west, with a decent stretch off of 14th street. It was sad to see so many homes vacant in the area off Byron, and on Clairmount, many not even boarded up!!

Just wide open to the elements and the ubiquitous busy-bee scrappers...

While this phenomenon is nothing new, I think this is an interesting story. We frequently hear calls for people to stick things out in Detroit, but after this woman's experience, it is hard to blame her for leaving Detroit.

I think this article highlights, above all, that without much improved public safety, Detroit will continue to decline. If a single, middle class woman cannot live in a Detroit neighborhood without being continually subject to crime, the city has little hope of attracting young professionals to the neighborhoods. There is truly a public safety crisis in the city.

For the rest of the article, click here.

[GOAT]

Ravine offers the best advice. What is best if for you and your wife or husband nothing more. You don't owe a city anything. In fact they should exist to serve you not the other way around.

[SWMAP]

Let's see: Grandma Christian was hiding James under the bed upstairs after he B&E'd Johnette Barham several times and torched her house, and Mertilla Jones [[grandmother of Aiyana Jones) was hiding Chauncey Owens upstairs on Lillibridge.

That's where to look - upstairs!

I guess its because the DPD is so militaristic.

[lincoln8740]

"Others were putting down their own roots in Detroit. Stephanie Lipscombe, 39, who worked with Ms. Barham in pharmaceutical sales, bought a condo in the city in a high-rise overlooking the Detroit River. "That was a great time to live downtown, when all the black restaurants, the mainstream black restaurants started popping up," she recalls. "It was sort of like a little glimmer of hope for Detroit."

Man just imagine a white person saying that with White instead of Black!

[Bearinabox]

"Others were putting down their own roots in Detroit. Stephanie Lipscombe, 39, who worked with Ms. Barham in pharmaceutical sales, bought a condo in the city in a high-rise overlooking the Detroit River. "That was a great time to live downtown, when all the black restaurants, the mainstream black restaurants started popping up," she recalls. "It was sort of like a little glimmer of hope for Detroit."

Man just imagine a white person saying that with White instead of Black!

I imagine it'd be the same kind of white person who thinks we need a White History Month, a Congressional White Caucus, and a National Association for the Advancement of White People, cause, you know, regular mainstream American society isn't doing a good enough job promoting white folks' interests as it is.

[Retroit]

So it's okay to judge a person [[or a restaurant) by the color of their skin [[or the skin of its owner) and not the content of their character [[or menu)?

[lincoln8740]

So it's okay to judge a person [[or a restaurant) by the color of their skin [[or the skin of its owner) and not the content of their character [[or menu)?

No no you have it all wrong. What bearinabox suffers from is called "white guilt"

In his world, blacks can never be racist, almost all whites are racist and there is never a problem in the African American community that cannot be blamed soley on whites.

[Thames]

"Others were putting down their own roots in Detroit. Stephanie Lipscombe, 39, who worked with Ms. Barham in pharmaceutical sales, bought a condo in the city in a high-rise overlooking the Detroit River. "That was a great time to live downtown, when all the black restaurants, the mainstream black restaurants started popping up," she recalls. "It was sort of like a little glimmer of hope for Detroit."

Man just imagine a white person saying that with White instead of Black!

I didn't read anything like that into her statement. I took it mean like "Mexican restaurant" or "Italian restaurant".

[English]

I didn't read anything like that into her statement. I took it mean like "Mexican restaurant" or "Italian restaurant".

Agreed. Thanks for making this distinction. There is an unhelpful blurring in American discourse between the notions of race and culture. Restricting people's life chances on the basis of their racial/ethnic appearance and choosing to eat soul food instead of Thai are so vastly different until only those who are dishonest would try to equate the two.

I do not care if people don't like elements of specific black American cultures [[there is more than one). When someone says they don't care for R&B or urban radio stations, don't like soul food, or don't care for black women's hairstyles, I don't really care. If someone says that my race and cognitive ability are linked, or that I couldn't do a good job, be a good neighbor, or be a good wife and mother just because my skin is browner than theirs, I'd have an issue with it.

White Americans have their cultures as well. These cultures differ by region, class, etc. I remember the first time that one of my white WSU classmates mentioned that something was "very white". I welcome and applaud the efforts of all peoples to celebrate and preserve their cultures, especially white folks in America, who still are very multicultural. I'm not offended that the Polish-American, German-American, or Renaissance festivals are overwhelmingly white. I don't get mad when I visit Frankenmuth, nor do I demand to see the United Colors of Benetton in lederhosen.

Yes, I am a black woman who appreciates eating in "black" restaurants from time to time, and has driven nearly an hour in the winter to do so. I wish I had a specific ethnic term to use for this style of cuisine instead of "black", because it's not the "blackness" that I'm looking for, but the kind of food. The same goes for any other element of culture.

[Retroit]

It should be obviously clear by now that there is no "white flight" or "black flight"; there is only "good flight". In other words, people who have a higher standard of civility will flee from those who have a lower standard. When whites left, it wasn't because they hated people with dark skin; it was because blacks often, though not always, brought social problems with them. I hope that blacks are finally able to acknowledge this.

Too many good blacks defend bad blacks because they associate with them based solely on skin color. It would be better for good blacks to associate with good people of any skin color and disassociate with bad people of any skin color. The good people in Detroit have to stop tolerating the bad, and they have to stop feeling like traitors to the so called "black movement" for doing so.

[Jimaz]

In his world, blacks can never be racist, almost all whites are racist and there is never a problem in the African American community that cannot be blamed soley on whites.

What? Does that make you feel envious?

Do you mean I am envious of him because he has White Guilt?

No. Someone who feels envious of racists whose racism is tolerated might have made your above statement. I'm offering you a chance to clarify your meaning.

[Jimaz]

He has left -- offline. I shouldn't be so coy.

The ordering of the words "I am" versus "am I" is telling.

I've yet to meet a person envious of racists who is not themself a racist. I was hoping this might have been an exception.

[Jimaz]

So, back to topic, we had "white flight" implying whites fleeing from blacks but now we have "black flight" implying what? Blacks fleeing from whites? Blacks fleeing from blacks?

Could it be rather that victims were and are simply fleeing from crime regardless of race?

So from where did these white/black adjectives come?

[fryar]

"Could it be rather that victims were and are simply fleeing from crime regardless of race?"

I think you're spot-on. I have always thought of urban flight having started as white flight and then becoming more equal opportunity as time progressed. WWII ends, the Interstate is built, and suddenly relatively remote farmland [[I am thinking Troy, Sterling Heights, that kind of thing) is easily accessible. Those who are in a position to do so make a run for what they see as the highly desirable combination of city life with country living. Due to history being what it is, in the early going especially, that's primarily white people.

The fact that black people are among those taking part in urban flight is not news at this point, at least in my mind.

[fryar]

What restaurants is she talking about? I wasn't oblivious to the cuisine being "ethnic" at Orchid Thai or Sizzle-N-Spice; could it be I patronized ethnic restaurants in the downtown area and didn't realize it? Maybe I didn't eat in the right places...

I would think that there is a term for, erm, soul cuisine. I mean, how else are you going to market the durned thing? By calling it black food, or a black restaurant? Puh-lease.

[English]

What restaurants is she talking about? I wasn't oblivious to the cuisine being "ethnic" at Orchid Thai or Sizzle-N-Spice; could it be I patronized ethnic restaurants in the downtown area and didn't realize it? Maybe I didn't eat in the right places...

I would think that there is a term for, erm, soul cuisine. I mean, how else are you going to market the durned thing? By calling it black food, or a black restaurant? Puh-lease.

This must be completely generational... my white buddies will label things "white", and my Asian friends will definitely say that something is "Asian." These labels describe generic forms of cultures, not races. Race and culture are not the same.

Black can be used as a racial OR a cultural designation. A "black restaurant" doesn't refer to race, but a type of cuisine. There are many different kinds of black American cuisines, just as there are many dozens of different West Indian and African foods. Black American cuisine is similar, but not identical to Southern cuisine. Anyone of any race can make this cuisine. The designation "soul food" originated in the 1960s, but the cuisine is hundreds of years old. For some of us who grew up on it, it is comfort food.

If calling something a "black restaurant" sets certain people off, I wonder how they feel about black hair salons? The very first thing that many black women ask when they move to a new neighborhood or city is where they can find a black hair salon or a cosmetologist who works with black hair. We don't ask for a soul hair salon... in fact, that just sounds silly.

[fryar]

This must be completely generational...

Aw dude, come on. I have read your posts about living in UT before setting off for AA in 2005. I think I'm like 5 years older than you. I mean, I may be old, but not that old.

Anyway, you got the wrong idea about me, and I apologize for even straying there and possibly being hurtful, which I hope I was not. I'm just wondering what restaurants or kinds of food she was talking about. Fishbone's? If not, by all means, shoot that down, fire away, I'm eager to learn.

It's along these lines: Since she was probably living quite close to the city, ie CBD, I think we may have eaten at the same places. I for one used to enjoy a lazy Saturday's brunch at the Breakfast House. Not only did they serve Eggs Benedict, strikingly rare in the city, but they had a delightful stuffed french toast that was eminently sharable and made for an excellent communal desert. I have read that they recently closed down, sadly enough. If I enjoyed a meal of butter chicken, I would like to know that this is understood to be Indian food, perhaps of the South Indian variety[[?). Similarly, can I go looking for things like that stuffed french toast in some subset of Black restaurants? If so, it would be nice to know the subset, I do have some skepticism that it would identify itself as a black restaurant rather than the subset.

If they reopen the breakfast house, by all means go. It's awesome.

[English]

Aw dude, come on. I have read your posts about living in UT before setting off for AA in 2005. I think I'm like 5 years older than you. I mean, I may be old, but not that old.

Anyway, you got the wrong idea about me, and I apologize for even straying there and possibly being hurtful, which I hope I was not. I'm just wondering what restaurants or kinds of food she was talking about. Fishbone's? If not, by all means, shoot that down, fire away, I'm eager to learn.

I wasn't offended at all, and didn't intend to give offense. I usually don't take conversations on DYes with me when I close the browser, which may be to my detriment. If you were offended, I sincerely apologize.

[Chub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bPbgxDsTc