Religion directly related to crime

[maxx]

Quote: "no one has to swear on a bible."

True, but they choose to do so. Because they understand, refusal to do so would disrespect their office and their constituency.

Swearing on any so-called "holy book" is just superstition. Has some god ever come down or up from wherever "he" lives to smite a perjuror?

[maxx]

rb336: "Intelligent Design," God money, tax-free status for churches so WE have to subsidize the police, fire, etc services provided to them, hence WE are supporting them, pushing for prayer in school, etc., the church's definition of when life begins [[the church's, mind you. not the bible's)

maxx: Yes, something that can't be said often enough. Why are we forced to support churches by giving them tax breaks? All we're getting is ignorance and the perpetuation of superstition. Let the believers support their own churches.

[maxx]

Sure. Just like those idiots on other social media that are protesting Obama's National day of prayer omission [[ a lie) and also protesting the Muslims praying somewhere last year. What about meeee? Obama's destroying the Christian faith! OMG!

That Prayer Breakfasts are just an example of how xtianity has been inveigling its way into government. Jeff Sharlett's book "The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the heart of American Power " lays it all out.

from amazon.com:
Checking in on a friend's brother at Ivenwald, a Washington-based fundamentalist group living communally in Arlington, Va., religion and journalism scholar Sharlet finds a sect whose members refer to Manhattan's Ground Zero as "the ruins of secularism"; intrigued, Sharlet accepts on a whim an invitation to stay at Ivenwald. He's shocked to find himself in the stronghold of a widespread "invisible" network, organized into cells much like Ivenwald, and populated by elite, politically ambitious fundamentalists; Sharlet is present when a leader tells a dozen men living there, "You guys are here to learn how to rule the world." As it turns out, the Family was established in 1935 to oppose FDR's New Deal and the spread of trade unions; since then, it has organized well-attended weekly prayer meetings for members of Congress and annual National Prayer Breakfasts attended by every president since Eisenhower. Further, the Family's international reach [["almost impossible to overstate") has "forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most oppressive regimes in the world." [from Publishers Weekly]

The Family holds Mao and Stalin as models of power. A lot of the xtian pols associated with the Family are told that the laws don't apply to them.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Without man there is no god."

Your opinion.. Everybody has one.

Quote: "It all sounds so 'Christian'."

Thanks..

Quote: "That's not an example of 'reverence' I'd use. Most of the people swearing on the bible do so out of coercion and the rest are crooked as hell."

And again, your opinion. That's like saying everyone that lives in Detroit must be a criminal, just look at the crime rates.. It's broad-brushing at it's worst.

Quote: "In fact some struggles were both secular and religious..."

The fact is, not everyone claiming to be doing the work of God is doing so, or have done so. It was an excuse for conquest fueled by nation building, racism, jealousy etc. The Bible is quite clear on the consequences of taking the life of another. Wide is the path, narrow is the way.

[maxx]

Sstashmoo: Seriously, grow up, what is that nativity scene doing to you exactly?

maxx: It's saying that xtianity has a unique hold of our government. Why aren't churches happy having their creches on church property?

S: I know, it's reminding you of a truth you refuse to accept.

maxx: The only truth a creche tells is that xtianity has pagan roots.

[Gistok]

I keep my religious beliefs to myself... and never tell others what they should or should not believe.

Those that do are idiots... and I've learned never to argue with an idiot... they just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!

[maxx]

Sstashmoo: And your side is just perfect? Aborting children as a form of birth control,

maxx: Atheists are a small percentage of the population so they cannot possibly be the only ones having abortions. There are a lot of churchgoers having abortions for various reasons, and it is their business. Most of the xtians who are hollering about safe and legal abortions are not interested in paying to make sure that all children right now get good medical care, decent housing, or education. Better to leave that issue in your god's "hands", and give people the choice here on earth. Or do you really think society will be better off if every pregnant dope addict is forced to give birth? If every pregnant woman is forced to give birth even if the child has no brainstem and the woman's health is impaired? Better read the testimony of Republican women who testified against the ban on so-called partial birth abortions.

[Sstashmoo]

maxx, some people claiming to be something and they aren't? This discovery of yours is right up there with holy grail or second gunman on the grassy knoll. You should be proud.

Quote: "And you haven't responded to my mentioning of xtians' demanding that their religion be granted certain privileges."

Your question is BS. We've been over this a billion times. You libe in a predominantly Christian nation, a democracy where the majority makes decisions when allowed to. If these issues were put up to a vote, you and Rb there would have plenty to whine about. Don't like it? So.

[maxx]

Abortion leads to reduction in crime? It also leads to reduction in human advancement, would you abort Einstein, Da vinci, Tesla or Edison?

There are plenty of geniuses dying on the vine in our cities today. Why not worry about them? We're not doing an adequate job of raising the kids that are born everyday in this country.

[rb336]

actually, studies have also shown that atheists have a lower rate of unintended pregnancy and abortion than the general public

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "and I've learned never to argue with an idiot..."

Thanks for the heads up. I just enjoy watching them shuck and jibe..

[rb336]

Your question is BS. We've been over this a billion times. You libe in a predominantly Christian nation, a democracy where the majority makes decisions when allowed to. If these issues were put up to a vote, you and Rb there would have plenty to whine about. Don't like it? So.

which is exactly WHY we speak up to keep religion out of the law, as the framers of the constitution intended. If you don't like the constitution, and want to live in a nation based on biblical law, head to the middle east

[maxx]

maxx, some people claiming to be something and they aren't? This discovery of yours is right up there with holy grail or second gunman on the grassy knoll. You should be proud.

I think you must be responding to someone else's post.

S: Quote: "And you haven't responded to my mentioning of xtians' demanding that their religion be granted certain privileges."

Your question is BS. We've been over this a billion times. You libe in a predominantly Christian nation, a democracy where the majority makes decisions when allowed to. If these issues were put up to a vote, you and Rb there would have plenty to whine about. Don't like it? So

maxx: So nothing. We have a constitution that has a first amendment written because the early colonists didn't want to have a church-based government. So it doesn't matter how many xtians are living here, that doesn't change the constitution.
You've been reading too much history written by lying xtians.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "which is exactly WHY we speak up to keep religion out of the law,"

How dumb, our laws are based on religion. Murder, theft, marriage, adultery etc.

[maxx]

Quote: "which is exactly WHY we speak up to keep religion out of the law,"

How dumb, our laws are based on religion. Murder, theft, marriage, adultery etc.

Hammurabi's code is the oldest compilation of laws, I think. It was devised by a monarch and there is nothing about any gods in it. The law comes from the experience of people living in close proximity. I don't know of any system of laws that relies on any god to enforce it.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Hammurabi's code is the oldest compilation of laws, I think."

You hope..

Here ya go:

""Hammurabi's Code of Laws

Translated by L. W. King
When Anu the Sublime, King of the Anunaki, and Bel, the lord of Heaven and earth, who decreed the fate of the land, assigned to Marduk, the over-ruling son of Ea, God of righteousness, dominion over earthly man, and made him great among the Igigi, they called Babylon by his illustrious name, made it great on earth, and founded an everlasting kingdom in it, whose foundations are laid so solidly as those of heaven and earth; then Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared God, to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak; so that I should rule over the black-headed people like Shamash, and enlighten the land, to further the well-being of mankind.""


http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/hammurabi.htm

And of course, we all know what happened to Babylon..

It was "raised".

[maxx]

Like Babylon is the only ancient culture that has disappeared. Puh-leeze.

"... to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers;"
Hammurabi's code may not be enforced but his words are still used today. Where have I heard those words before?
You can find some of the Decalogue in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Oooh, here's a lake of fire. http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebod38.htm

And here's the confession. http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebod37.htm
"Khemennu, I have not made any to suffer pain. [[4) Hail, Devourer of Shades, who comest forth from [thy] retreat, I have not robbed. [[5) Hail, thou whose limbs are terrible to look upon, who comest forth from Restau, I have done no murder. [[6) Hail, thou god who art in the form of two lions, who comest forth from heaven, I have not defrauded offerings..."

[maxx]

Egyptian Underworld
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ehh/ehh04.htm
"...
From the above lists, and from copies of them which are found in the Papyrus of Ani, and other
p. 37
finely illustrated Books of the Dead, it is quite clear that, according to one view, Sekhet-Aaru, the land of the blessed, was divided into seven sections, each of which was entered through a Gate having three attendants, and that, according to other traditions, it had sections varying in number from ten to twenty-one, for each of the Gates mentioned above must have been intended to protect a division. It will be noted that the names of the Ten Gates are in reality long sentences, which make sense and can be translated, but there is little doubt that under the XVIIIth Dynasty these sentences were used as purely magical formulae, or words of power, which, provided the deceased knew how to pronounce them, there was no great need to understand. In other words, it was not any goodness or virtue of his own which would enable him to pass through the Gates of Sekhet-Aaru, and disarm the opposition of their warders, but the knowledge of certain formulæ, or words of power, and magical names. We are thus taken back to a very remote period by these ideas, and to a time when the conceptions as to the abode of the blessed were of a purely magical character; the addition of pictures to the formulae, or names, belongs to a later period, when it was thought right to strengthen them by illustrations. The deceased, who not only possessed the secret name of a god or demon, but also a picture of him whereby he could easily recognize him when he met him, was doubly armed against danger..."


[the power of prayers as magical incantations]


Other facts to be gleaned from the list of Aats [regions] concerning Sekhet-Aaru are that:--1. One section at least was filled with fire. 2. Another was filled with rushing, roaring waters, which swept everything away before them. 3. In another the serpent Rerek lived. 4. In another the Spirits lived upon the inert and the feeble. 5. In another lived the "Destroyer of Souls." 6. The great antiquity of the ideas about the Aats is proved by the appearance of the names of Hap, the Nile-god, Sept, or Sothis, and the Hippopotamus-goddess, Hebt-re-f, in connection with them..."

[Sstashmoo]

This is your evidence? Wow...

[rb336]

Quote: "which is exactly WHY we speak up to keep religion out of the law,"

How dumb, our laws are based on religion. Murder, theft, marriage, adultery etc.

now THAT comment is dumb.
to add to the previous Hammurabi comments that the "ten commandments" themselves have antecedents that are totally secular -- Suzerainty treaties from various ME societies that predate, and are nearly identical in form to, the contract in one of those "books of moses" [[moses, btw, is a myth yanked right out of the legend of mesopotamian ruler Mises, right down to the reed basket)

[Sstashmoo]

"Mises" was probably a myth yanked right out of the book of Moses.. I always love these folks that claim chronology in a time where few records were kept and there wasn't even a system to accurately keep any sort of time.

Carbon dating has been proved inconsistent many times.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/carbo...-accuracy.html

"C-14/C-12 Ratio is Not Absolute
The carbon dating accuracy is largely dependent on an assumed absolute ratio of C-14 to C-12 which is supposed to have remained constant over time. However, in reality the ratio varies with time and place.

C-14 is created in the upper layers of the atmosphere by the bombardment of Nitrogen with cosmic rays. It then enters the lower atmosphere and gets distributed forming carbon dioxide in the process. This carbon dioxide made of radioactive carbon is assimilated by plants through the process of photosynthesis and it enters into food cycle. Carbon forms the backbone of life on earth.

This ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 is taken to be the one detected, in 1950, which is taken as the 'Present' or the point in time up to which the age is determined. Hence the ages are given as for example, 3400 BP [[3400 years BP). Where 'BP' stands for before present. The flaw in this method is that, it assumes that the carbon 14/carbon 12 ratio has been the same till 1950, which is not the case in reality. However, this problem is taken care of by calibration curves which account for the change in the ratio. Still, this changing ratio of carbon isotopes does make a minuscule dent in carbon dating accuracy.""

Sounds like an "educated guess" to me.

[Pam]

Tornado season is here and as usual the survivors always thank God and say they were praying to be spared. So does that mean the victims weren't praying hard enough and/or God smited them because they were sinners? Can one of you believers explain it to me?

[rb336]

"Mises" was probably a myth yanked right out of the book of Moses.. I always love these folks that claim chronology in a time where few records were kept and there wasn't even a system to accurately keep any sort of time.

ahhh, yes. first, let's assume that the C-14 is what was used for dating here, and the only method used for dating. then let's assume that they took none of the precaustions that have made C-14 FAR more accurate than mister "Gray Pilgrim" [[obvious pseudonym) implies. yet again, he cites no sources that would probably actually explain what is going on to the scientifically illiterate.

then again, let's take the fact that a figure as monumental in Egyptian history as Moses appears to be in the bible, isn't referenced in any of the thousands of documents left by the Egyptians. Neither are there ANY records of any judaic people.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "he cites no sources"

Pertaining to the inaccuracy of carbon 14 dating? rb, you're obviously not very well read, if you would question this known fact. It's accuracy relies on too many assumptions. Sort of like your posts ziiinngg!

[1KielsonDrive]

Religious people like to debate about 'faith' as if it is something quantifiable and qualifiable. Hmmm, I wonder why it's called 'faith'. My kids had 'faith' in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy when they were young.