Detroit police stop pillow fight

[Bearinabox]

Nice to know DPD is confiscating pillows instead of, you know, patrolling my neighborhood or responding to 911 calls or something stupid and frivolous like that. Who has time for murderers and crack dealers when there are people with pillows on the loose?

[Zulu Warrior]

And the crazy but true thing about it, some one was undercover on it.....pardon the pun.

[Sludgedaddy]

The DPD was probably warned that the pillow fight was to take place with a large rock replacing some of the feathers turning it into a Detroit type of fun affair.

[Fnemecek]

Nice to know DPD is confiscating pillows instead of, you know, patrolling my neighborhood or responding to 911 calls or something stupid and frivolous like that. Who has time for murderers and crack dealers when there are people with pillows on the loose?

Amen.

It wasn't that long ago that I had to call 9-1-1 to report that two drug dealers were shooting at each other in my neighborhood. They never responded to that call.

But some goofballs what to have a pillow fight in Campus Martius Park and that is what gets them to show up???

James Barren has simply got to go. That man is barely qualified to run the donut shop next to a police station, let alone an entire police department.

[Bloomfield Pills]

James Barren has simply got to go. That man is barely qualified to run the donut shop next to a police station, let alone an entire police department.

I agree the police should be concentrating on more important things than pillow fights, but you'd have to look far and wide to find someone more qualified than James Barren. Or were you just kidding? Either you don't know of which you speak or you're just joking, because Barren has an incredibly impressive resume.

Also, keep in mind: The police may have been ordered to break up the pillow fight from someone in the Mayor's Office because they're trying to put the best face on downtown with the NCAA tourney in town.

I can almost guarantee you the rank-and-file cops who were told to break up the pillow fight would've rather been doing something else.

[michmeister]

Ain`t nothin`like removing the criminal element from our downtown area! All those loaded pillowcases and I`ll bet not one of them were registered!

[Danny]

YAY Pillow fight!

[Fnemecek]

I agree the police should be concentrating on more important things than pillow fights, but you'd have to look far and wide to find someone more qualified than James Barren. Or were you just kidding? Either you don't know of which you speak or you're just joking, because Barren has an incredibly impressive resume.

Really? Well, let's take a close look at James Barren's tenure as Chief of Police in Detroit.

• No discussions about how police resources are allocated;
• No action to improve the Detroit Police Department's staffing levels - either civilian or uniformed;
• No action to improve compensation, training or retention among police officers;
• No action to improve the Detroit Police Department's infrastructure needs other than a few mini-stations, which have already proven to be ineffective;
• No action to replace Detroit Police Department's troubled Crisnet police report system, even though an internal DPD memo show that "the department's ability to maintain its core functions in an efficient and effective manner has been greatly challenged" because of this system; and
• No progress towards implementing a verified response system, similar to what police departments in most major cities use, to deal with false alarms.

Which part of this performance would you describe as "incredibly impressive"?

How far and wide do you really think we would have to look to find someone who doesn't do any of the things that Dr. Barren doesn't do?

James Barren may have a PhD in psychology. James Barren may be an accomplished counselor or psychologist. However, when it comes to police work, the man isn't qualified to run the donut shop next door to a police station.

[buildingsofdetroit]

"Detroit police stop pillow fight"

Good work. Now try to stop the gunfights.

[Bloomfield Pills]

Really? Well, let's take a close look at James Barren's tenure as Chief of Police in Detroit.

• No discussions about how police resources are allocated;
• No action to improve the Detroit Police Department's staffing levels - either civilian or uniformed;
• No action to improve compensation, training or retention among police officers;
• No action to improve the Detroit Police Department's infrastructure needs other than a few mini-stations, which have already proven to be ineffective;
• No action to replace Detroit Police Department's troubled Crisnet police report system, even though an internal DPD memo show that "the department's ability to maintain its core functions in an efficient and effective manner has been greatly challenged" because of this system; and
• No progress towards implementing a verified response system, similar to what police departments in most major cities use, to deal with false alarms.

Which part of this performance would you describe as "incredibly impressive"?

How far and wide do you really think we would have to look to find someone who doesn't do any of the things that Dr. Barren doesn't do?

James Barren may have a PhD in psychology. James Barren may be an accomplished counselor or psychologist. However, when it comes to police work, the man isn't qualified to run the donut shop next door to a police station.

All the things you mention take money to fix. There is no money. None.

Explain what you would do to fix the aforementioned problems with absolutely no budget to work with.

And James Barren is far more than just an accomplished counselor and psychologist. His police resume is indeed impressive; look it up some time. In fact, I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Portals/...202%202004.pdf


He's held just about every job within the Detroit Police Department, coming up through the ranks, paying his dues the hard way. This is no political brown-noser like Benny Napoleon and Ella Bully-Cummings.

I know a lot of Detroit cops, and to a man and woman they say they're happy with their new chief. Knowing how much police officers love to bitch about their chief, this is shocking. They all say they finally feel they have a chief who is on their side. The morale of the department has increased by leaps and bounds.

The citizens complained about the department moving away from the precinct system, so he figured out a way to bring back some precincts that didn't cost money. I get the feeling he's more interested in making the department better than someday running for office, which is what Napoleon was all about. Barren also doesn't seem like a mindless political appointee who will say or do anything to appease the mayor, as Ella-Bully was.

I'm not shilling for Barren at all. I just happen to think he's done a damn good job, given the resources he has to work with. It's easy to say, "Fix all these problems." But when the money isn't there, it's impossible.

And, with all due respect, to call him unqualified is ignorant of the facts. He's the most qualified chief we've had in Detroit in many, many years.

[Fnemecek]

#1. I am tired of illiterate buffoons who argue that the City of Detroit has "no money". The City of Detroit has a general fund budget of $3.1 billion, which is currently running a deficit estimated at $300 million. This leaves us with $2.8 billion in cash with which to run the City.

#2. There is a huge difference between having $2.8 billion and having "no money". The difference, of course, is $2.8 billion. If you would like to see what it's like to run a city government with no money then convince Mayor Cockrel to give the taxpayers back our $2.8 billion.

#3. I posted a few ideas above where the City of Detroit could save millions of dollars. That took me less than an hour and was done using nothing more than information that is readily available on the City of Detroit's web site. If I had better information and it was my job, I could probably come up with even more.

#4. I am quite familiar with James Barren and his resume. I read it the day he was appointed to his current post. I've also met him at community forums. None of those things convince me to change my opinion him.

#5. James Barren isn't qualified to run the donut shop next door to a police station. It's not about his resume. He simply does not have the leadership skills required to effectively take command of a complex situation.

#6. If he had what it takes to be an effective commander then he would have been the one digging through the City of Detroit's budget to find the resources that he needs to accomplish his mission. He did not do that. Therefore, no matter what his resume says or what subordinate officers say about him, he isn't qualified to do the job.

[g-dub]

Anyway, back to the pillowfights... At least the DPD didn't put handcuffs on anyone, unlike in Chicago.

[Bloomfield Pills]

#1. I am tired of illiterate buffoons who argue that the City of Detroit has "no money".

Well, since you obviously don't know how to carry on a civil conversation, I'll end this discussion with you. This seems to be a personal issue with you against Barren, so I'll leave you to work out your own issues. I am not interested in discussing anything with someone who has to resort to the kind of insults quoted above. Have a nice life.

[LodgeDodger]

#1. I am tired of illiterate buffoons who argue that the City of Detroit has "no money". The City of Detroit has a general fund budget of $3.1 billion, which is currently running a deficit estimated at $300 million. This leaves us with $2.8 billion in cash with which to run the City.

#2. There is a huge difference between having $2.8 billion and having "no money". The difference, of course, is $2.8 billion. If you would like to see what it's like to run a city government with no money then convince Mayor Cockrel to give the taxpayers back our $2.8 billion.

#3. I posted a few ideas above where the City of Detroit could save millions of dollars. That took me less than an hour and was done using nothing more than information that is readily available on the City of Detroit's web site. If I had better information and it was my job, I could probably come up with even more.

#4. I am quite familiar with James Barren and his resume. I read it the day he was appointed to his current post. I've also met him at community forums. None of those things convince me to change my opinion him.

#5. James Barren isn't qualified to run the donut shop next door to a police station. It's not about his resume. He simply does not have the leadership skills required to effectively take command of a complex situation.

#6. If he had what it takes to be an effective commander then he would have been the one digging through the City of Detroit's budget to find the resources that he needs to accomplish his mission. He did not do that. Therefore, no matter what his resume says or what subordinate officers say about him, he isn't qualified to do the job.

I'm rather pleased with the job Mr. Barren is doing at this time. What qualifies you to be such a strong critic of Mr. Barren? Do you have experience in law enforcement? Do you have experience in city government?

[softailrider]

I agree the police should be concentrating on more important things than pillow fights, but you'd have to look far and wide to find someone more qualified than James Barren. Or were you just kidding? Either you don't know of which you speak or you're just joking, because Barren has an incredibly impressive resume.

Also, keep in mind: The police may have been ordered to break up the pillow fight from someone in the Mayor's Office because they're trying to put the best face on downtown with the NCAA tourney in town.

I can almost guarantee you the rank-and-file cops who were told to break up the pillow fight would've rather been doing something else.

Like finding something to steal?

[Supersport]

Wow. Has everybody on this thread forgot about MSU's reputation for celebratory violence? Everybody seems to have missed the fact that 60 people were arrested by East Lansing Police after MSU won on Friday.

Just a little pillow fight?

Aside from the cleanup concerns already mentioned, there are other greater risks with such a large gathering. Several hundred to a thousand people gathered in a relatively small area can quickly turn into a violent mob. I already heard first hand reports of MSU fans chuckin' glass bottles into crowds of people Friday night. Say a few people, under the cover of the pillow fight, find it the perfect opportunity to sucker punch a few people? Say those few punches turn into an all out brawl? Who would the finger be pointed at then? The Police....for letting it get out of hand. Say it didn't grow into an all out brawl, say the crowd turned on the few people throwing punches and pummeled them to death, long before the police were able to realize more than pillows were being swung. Again, everybody would be pointing a finger at the Police, asking "Why did they allow a gathering of people for no other purpose than to strike one another in the head with pillows?"

Fnemecek,

I'm not even sure where to start with all your senseless babble, but I'm gonna try any way.

How police resources are allocated...they are allocated as they are needed. In case you havn't noticed, there is a severe shortage of officers on the job. It's not as though it is some well kept secret, as there was a shortage when Kwame decided to start layoffs back in 2005. The city still hasn't recovered from those layoffs, and is still struggling to even come close to the number of officers needed to replace those retiring. Between 1984-1986 DPD hired 1,700 officers. Of those, over these next few years, it is estimated that approximately 900 will be retiring. Much like the city's budget, this is an area that Kwame chose to overlook and made his cuts, likely to provide more money for his pockets and contracts for his friends...but we'll have more on that later.

No action to increase the staffing levels? I'm confused, as perhaps you've missed the fact that approximately 200 additional officers are either sworn in, or currently in the Detroit Police Academy. Anybody in the general public can attend the graduation ceremonies, and every graduation has had a slot on all the major news channels. The next graduation takes place at Cobo this week.

No action to improve compensation, training or retention among police officers? The last contract gave police officers raises. If new to the job, one recieves incremental pay raises over a 5 year period. While one often hears about how horrible police are paid, it's not as bad as some make it sound. Top pay after 5 years is currently about $53,000. Your not gonna become rich in this profession, but you can make a damn good living. Is $53,000 low? Well, most suburbs pay about $5,000 more, and a few, such as Sterling Heights and Warren, pay around $73,000. There is room for improvement, though most anybody will argue in whatever their profession that they need more money. Many cities offer incentives, such as pay increases, if you have a college degree. It should be noted, many of those higher paying suburbs also require a college degree to work for their department. Note, that is base pay without any court time or overtime. Without trying too hard, most officers make in the $65,000-$70,000 range, and I've met more than a few hitting the 6 figure mark. Granted, this is with tons of OT and lots of court time, but while trying to increasing the staffing levels, the OT is going to be there.

No action to improve the infrastructure...really? I guess the only focus you have is on these mini-stations. Again, while they don't seem to cater to you, the 20,000 [[I think) who get their cars stolen, and the tens of thousands more who get their homes/cars/other property broke into or vandalized are likely much more appreciative. Perhaps you missed the fact that the 10th precinct opened back up a few months ago. Or the announcement that the 8th and 5th are also on track to be reopened. You bitch and whine about the current situation, yet Kwame is the one who closed down the precincts. Kwame is the one who hooked his boy, Bobby Ferguson, up with the former 8th precinct, for a song and a dance. Have you drove by #8? Does it look like any effort was made to preserve/secure that building, just in case it was to ever be reopened? Nope, part of the closing of precincts was likely to help line Kwame and Kwame's thug's pockets. I see a sign popped up on #8's property recently announcing a strip mall shopping center. Pretty prime piece of real estate ain't it? I can't say there is any connection between Kwame and the owner of Fishbones, but #13 was sold to the owner of that restaurant. Again, another prime piece of real estate, sold to another business owner, also sitting abandoned and delapidated.

Also on the chief's list are new, more practical uniforms, new weapons/ammo, shotguns mounted inside the scout car [[as most EVERY other police department has), new scout cars, and even talks of another run at tazers. The infrastructure was torn to shreds during the last administration's 6 years in power. Now, the new administration is trying to put the pieces back together, all while battling a deficit in the hundreds of millions.

Let's touch on the scout cars again, which are also part of the problem with response times. Kwame hooked up one of his boys to the tune of $15 million [[so I'm told) to outfit the new scout cars with police equipment. What does Kwame's boy's portfolio consist of? Yep, you guessed it, car audio installations! Seems that the city has to honor the contract or risk being sued for voiding it. Ample time has to be given for them to attempt to meet the contract requirements. Problem is, rumor has it that the contract allows for cars to be rolled out in such low numbers that they won't be sufficient to replenish the fleet of beat down and abused scout cars with well over 100,000 miles on them.

Why not simply fix/maintain the fleet we have? Surely, in today's age, 100,000 really ain't that much for a well maintained car, right? Well, again, part of Kwame's big cutback was laying off the maintenance workers at the garages in the city. So, when a car goes in for a simple brake job, it may sit there for several months, simply because the garage is so backed up because they have so few workers.

Crisnet.....sounds like you got some bad information. Crisnet [[NetRMS) is one of the most popular programs out there used by police departments. Now that's not to say that Crisnet doesn't have it's problems, mostly due to the department not paying the extra cash to customize the system to meet our needs. Sometimes the wording for an offense isn't what you'd expect, sometimes you get errors that you can't figure out how to correct. However, the argument that the old hand written system is better is the equivalent of having your tax accountant doing your taxes by hand as opposed to using computer software, claiming it is a more efficient way to do it. Could the system be approved upon? Sure, many department have the ability to do the reports in their scout cars. This would help increase efficiency...if you had a computer/your computer worked, which pretty much sums up the situation at communications as well, understaffed/insufficient equipment to outfit cars.

Verified response....how exactly does that work? Because if there was an efficient means to omit false alarms, that would be of great benefit. However, a lot of times it's the panic alarm portion of the alarm set off accidentally by a home owner. They can call back to cancel, but a scout is still sent out, in case the home owner is being held hostage and forced to call and say "Everything is ok." That is why the department still sends a car out, for the home owner's safety.

As you can see, many of the issues you complain about were created by the last administration and his thugs. The problems that exist can't be erased over night, or even in the short amount of time you seem to expect it. Every one of your concerns are being addressed, and it seems that the changes that HAVE taken place would be proof of that.

Oh, one last concern I recall you mentioned was insufficient training. Well, we got the green light to sign up for any training we desire. A few days ago we had in-service training on department policies and proper forms. We were also informed of free classes offered through Davenport, and I think WCCC, to city employees, and are encouraged to sign up for anything in which we are interested in.

Perhaps you'd like to hear about more of the changes first hand from the chief himself. If so, why not attend the graduation of new recruits this week on Thursday at 2pm at Cobo? Perhaps it would ease some of your concerns.

[silverbeauty]

.

Just a little pillow fight?
. Several hundred to a thousand people gathered in a relatively small area can quickly turn into a violent mob.

It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt.

[Pam]

Wow. Has everybody on this thread forgot about MSU's reputation for celebratory violence? Everybody seems to have missed the fact that 60 people were arrested by East Lansing Police after MSU won on Friday.

The pillow thing didn't have anything to do with MSU or the Final Four.

The pillow fight, which was to be one of at least 50 across the world Saturday organized by people on social networking Web sites, was shut down by Detroit police officers who were stationed at the park.

[Fnemecek]

How police resources are allocated...they are allocated as they are needed. In case you haven't noticed, there is a severe shortage of officers on the job.

If there's a large contingent of certified police officers assigned to handle things that ordinary civilians can take care of, while at the same time high-priority crimes are going without any response from DPD, then police resources are not allocated as they are needed. Campus Martius Park has its own private security team to deal with scofflaws packing pillows. Who is going to take care of the rapes, shootings and drug deals?

As for the shortage officers, of course I've noticed that. How could I not?

Perhaps you would care to explain how opening a mini-station is better use of our limited funds than actually hiring more people?

More on mini-stations and other building non-sense below. In the meantime, if you think DPD's are allocated properly then I invite you to stop by my neighborhood some time. I'll be happy to introduce you to the folks who have been robbed 4 times in 6 months and are yet to see a police officer show up.

When you're done explaining how great those mini-stations are to them, I can start introducing to the folks who simply given up on calling 9-1-1 simply because they know that no one is ever going to show.

No action to increase the staffing levels? I'm confused, as perhaps you've missed the fact that approximately 200 additional officers are either sworn in, or currently in the Detroit Police Academy.

Right. And how many officers have left DPD in the 6 months that Dr. Barren has been on the job?

If you're losing experienced officers faster than you're bringing in rookies then you have a problem. What has Dr. Barren done about that?

Nothing.

No action to improve the infrastructure...really? I guess the only focus you have are these mini-stations. Again, while they don't seem to cater to you, the 20,000 [[I think) who get their cars stolen, and the tens of thousands more who get their homes/cars/other property broke into or vandalized are likely much more appreciative.

It's not that they don't cater me, it's that they're not effective. What's the use of making it easier to report a crime if there isn't someone available to investigate and ultimately make an arrest?

If no one ever makes an arrest then your perp is simply out there doing the same thing over and over, until eventually you can't build enough mini-stations to take all of the crime reports.

A large portion of police work means investigating those crime reports, making an arrest and getting a clean conviction. If you're not doing that then mini-stations don't mean crap.
[quote=Supersport;3946]Crisnet.....sounds like you got some bad information./quote]
My info comes straight from internal DPD memos. If you feel it's bad, I invite you to discuss with the AC who wrote it.

Verified response....how exactly does that work? Because if there was an efficient means to omit false alarms, that would be of great benefit. However, a lot of times it's the panic alarm portion of the alarm set off accidentally by a home owner. They can call back to cancel, but a scout is still sent out, in case the home owner is being held hostage and force to call and say "Everything is ok." That is why the department still sends a car out.

Wow! A hostage situation. No other department has ever had to deal with that. All of those other departments who are using are clearly making a huge mistake.

Or they just require they ask a series of verification questions, repeat a pre-assigned password that the captor wouldn't know about, or something of that nature. This does double duty of weeding out false alarms and enabling officers who are sent to a potential hostage situation to know up-front that it's a possible hostage situation.

Bah! As far as I'm concerned, Chief Barren can set up his donut shop inside of one of those mini-stations. It'll be the most productive thing he's done in his career.

[Supersport]

Fnemecek,

You seem to have all the answers, and yet no way to pay for the solutions. This is where it gets interesting....so, how do you finance all these changes within a 6 month period, while balancing a $300-$700 million deficit?