Official 2012 Presidential Debate Thread

[oladub]

Quick, somebody make a teleprompter comment!

To your rescue:

"I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Obama looks like he DOES need a teleprompter"

-Bill Maher
.

[Crumbled_pavement]

I think its political entertainment pure and simple.

Bingo!!!!!

[Zacha341]

Not a big fan of Romney or president Obama, but Romney asked several question that Obama will need to answer even if he does become president; increasingly so from the dem side of things.

The 'repub' factor will not be there as much.

[rb336]

lol Romney "lied".
Ha ha ha

Why don't you just admit when the lord thy god Obama has a bad day?

he did admit that, and romney lied his ass off on almost every asnswer, as virtually everyone who has fact checked the debates has concluded

[Zacha341]

Then there were some questions the president simply did NOT answer. Perhaps president Obama forgot he was in a debate and not there for his constituents? The president did not seem well prepared....

Anyway, well since you brought up factcheck... 'check' out the details [[exaggerations to be nice) of BOTH Obama and Romney:

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

Summary :

• Obama accused Romney of proposing a $5 trillion tax cut. Not true. Romney proposes to offset his rate cuts and promises he won’t add to the deficit.
• Romney again promised to “not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans” and also to “lower taxes on middle-income families,” but didn’t say how he could possibly accomplish that without also increasing the deficit.
• Obama oversold his health care law, claiming that health care premiums have “gone up slower than any time in the last 50 years.” That’s true of health care spending, but not premiums. And the health care law had little to do with the slowdown in overall spending.
• Romney claimed a new board established by the Affordable Care Act is “going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have.” Not true. The board only recommends cost-saving measures for Medicare, and is legally forbidden to ration care or reduce benefits.
• Obama said 5 million private-sector jobs had been created in the past 30 months. Perhaps so, but that counts jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics won’t add to the official monthly tallies until next year. For now, the official tally is a bit over 4.6 million.
• Romney accused Obama of doubling the federal deficit. Not true. The annual deficit was already running at $1.2 trillion when Obama took office.
• Obama again said he’d raise taxes on upper-income persons only to the “rates that we had when Bill Clinton was president.” Actually, many high-income persons would pay more than they did then, because of new taxes in Obama’s health care law.
• Romney claimed that middle-income Americans have “seen their income come down by $4,300.” That’s too high. Census figures show the decline in median household income during Obama’s first three years was $2,492, even after adjusting for inflation.
• Obama again touted his “$4 trillion” deficit reduction plan, which includes $1 trillion from winding down wars that are coming to an end in any event.

[[For more go to link above for more details on the issues re. Romney and Obama)

[rb336]

Anyway, well since you brought up factcheck... 'check' out the details [[exaggerations to be nice) of BOTH Obama and Romney:

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

Summary :

• Obama accused Romney of proposing a $5 trillion tax cut. Not true. Romney proposes to offset his rate cuts and promises he won’t add to the deficit.

• http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/rom...e-tax-promise/
• Tax experts — including one who supports Romney’s plan — say the Republican presidential candidate’s promise to cut individual income tax rates without either favoring the wealthy or losing revenue isn’t mathematically possible.

Obama again touted his “$4 trillion” deficit reduction plan, which includes $1 trillion from winding down wars that are coming to an end in any event.

That doesn't count? in what way doesn't that count?

[firstandten]

Then there were some questions the president simply did NOT answer. Perhaps president Obama forgot he was in a debate and not there for his constituents? The president did not seem well prepared....

Its difficult to be prepared for someone who is all over the place with his statements, walking back on statements he had on his website just a few days earlier. So what he did and more than a few pundits stated, was that he let Romney get it all out. Now moving forward Romney has to own these misleading comments.

There are going to be some exaggerations in a debate there always is. But 27 documented misleading statements in the 38 minutes of the 90 you had to speak. I don't think anybody can adequately prepare for something like that especially in the first debate.


http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ate?paging=off

[rb336]

What kills me is that no one has stated the obvious - Romney came off as a bully, not a leader

[oladub]

Zacha341: Obama again touted his “$4 trillion” deficit reduction plan, which includes $1 trillion from winding down wars that are coming to an end in any event.

rb: That doesn't count? in what way doesn't that count?

offhand-
1) Obama has trillion dollar deficits lined up as far as the eye can see. The $4T is over 10 years leaving an additional $6T of deficits.No other president has ever been in this league except for the extraordinary gifting of bankers in Bush's last year which Obama voted for as Senator. Anyone who is interested in balancing the budget should start supporting Rand Paul 2016 now to try to pick up the pieces.
2) Obama has no record of reigning in budgets. There is always some new program or executive order legislating more costs. Is he going to change his feathers?
3) The trillions dollars per year spent on mostly unconstitutional wars, which Senator Obama voted for and President Obama extended, should never have been incurred. Money that should never have been spent shouldn't be diverted. It's like someone who borrows money to support a bad habit quitting the bad habit but still borrowing money to buy something else.
4) Senator Obama promised when campaigning four years ago that he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first administration. He is not to be believed. That was never a priority of his in his first administration. Now we are supposed to suspend disbelief and imagine that this time he means it. What a joke. He also promised to cut health insurance premiums in half by the end of his first term. The guy is not believable on matters of savings.

[Zacha341]

A well positioned foot can trip you up every time it can be argued.

OK, well, now that president Obama 'knows' what he is working with her can be better prepared [[to step over the feet), and do what he needs to do if he wants to win! Problem solved.

The president will need to be prepared to face more questions and challenges ongoing; EVENTUALLY from more WITHIN the party if he retains presidency, sans the bully repub factor!

'Practice' will make perfect I'd say.

Its difficult to be prepared for someone who is all over the place with his statements, walking back on statements he had on his website just a few days earlier. So what he did and more than a few pundits stated, was that he let Romney get it all out. Now moving forward Romney has to own these misleading comments.

There are going to be some exaggerations in a debate there always is. But 27 documented misleading statements in the 38 minutes of the 90 you had to speak. I don't think anybody can adequately prepare for something like that especially in the first debate.


http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ate?paging=off

[firstandten]

A well positioned foot can trip you up every time it can be argued.

OK, well, now that president Obama 'knows' what he is working with her can be better prepared [[to step over the feet), and do what he needs to do if he wants to win! Problem solved.

The president will need to be prepared to face more questions and challenges ongoing; EVENTUALLY from more WITHIN the party if he retains presidency, sans the bully repub factor!

'Practice' will make perfect I'd say.

Given the Presidents history I think he will do much better going forward. If he doesn't, then thats on him

[Jimaz]

This guy makes a witty political metaphor by coupling two of those "World's Most Useless Machines" together.

Do not bother to watch the whole video. The only unusual thing that happens is the coupling fails a few times and he fixes it with tape. There is no punch line. You have been warned! LOL!

Political Machines 2

It might be interesting to couple three or more machines together somehow. Hmm.

[rb336]

did anyone watch the full 11 minutes?

[oladub]

did anyone watch the full 11 minutes?

I skimmed it to look for a conclusion. There was none. I prefer this similar Tom Toles cartoon.

Also found this debate cartoon by Toles.

Credit: Tom Toles cartoons at http://www.gocomics.com/tomtoles/2012/10/07

[Jimaz]

did anyone watch the full 11 minutes?

I did, but only because I refuse to post any video link that I haven't completely viewed myself. It's a matter of quality control.

[noise]

lol Romney "lied".
Ha ha ha

Why don't you just admit when the lord thy god Obama has a bad day?

You haven't been paying attention. I dislike President Obama. I just dislike him a little less than the lord thy god Romney.

[jiminnm]

I did, but only because I refuse to post any video link that I haven't completely viewed myself. It's a matter of quality control.

There simply aren't enough hours in the day for you to do this.

[Papasito]

Thursday Night is coming ...
It should be interesting.

[firstandten]

Biden took Ryan to school. More importantly he showed his boss how you handle somebody who keeps jumping around with the facts. You can't get wonky with your answers and you need to call folks out as soon as they start twisting the facts and creating narratives out of thin air. Biden showed the political experience that he has over his opponent.

[noise]

Yeah, that was painfully one-sided. Ryan was not prepared, but he never will be.

[oladub]

Fresh from watching C-span without any hearing any opinions regarding who won, I thought Biden edged Ryan for two reasons.

1. Biden had a better stage presence. Ryan was leaning forward with his forehead wrinkled and sounded like he was nervous and talking through a tin can. Biden was disingenuous and full of BS regarding the economy but he said stuff with so much self assurance and was more relaxed. When Biden looked directly into the camera and asked who are you going to believe on Social Security, he scored points. When Ryan looked into the camera, I didn't find him to be as believable or appealing.

2. I actually sided with Biden as the lesser of two evils in discussions about wars and specifically Afghanistan. Never mind that more Americans died in Afghanistan under Obama than under Bush, compared with Ryan, Biden sounded like a dove. They both provided strong reason to vote third party regarding Iran, wars, etc. to vote for peace.

- regarding Martha Raddatz: I counted four times where she interrupted Ryan when he started rolling and turned the stage over to Biden causing Ryan to lose a bit of momentum. Also, I don't remember her asking a specific question about how each candidate proposed balancing the budget although Ryan touched on it a couple of times.

Biden had a goofy smile which was annoying my wife and was frequently interrupting for the first hour. Somehow, I think he got away with it though as Uncle Joe. That's just how he is sort of thing. Ryan seemed to have lost energy in the last half hour as Joe settled down.

[firstandten]

Good analysis Oladub just one point. I said these debates were political entertainment so if Biden gave out a lot of convincing BS as you stated as did Romney did in the first debate. Isn't it about how you come off and how you connect with each individuals hot button issues ?

[oladub]

Good analysis Oladub just one point. I said these debates were political entertainment so if Biden gave out a lot of convincing BS as you stated as did Romney did in the first debate. Isn't it about how you come off and how you connect with each individuals hot button issues ?

firstandten, Content is important but people like to get a sense of the person too. How they handle themselves with each other is an indication of how they will act one on one with Putin and other not always friendly leaders. I don't know if I would call it entertainment but maybe entertainment in the sense of a sports event.

[Papasito]

.... people like to get a sense of the person too. How they handle themselves with each other is an indication of how they will act one on one with Putin and other not always friendly leaders.

Biden was very un-presidential. Condescending, disrespectful, rude and misbehaved. I guess that's how he feels he should act when he had nothing with substance to say?

[noise]

It looks like the fact check sites aren't looking very favorably on Ryan. Why should anyone be respectful to a blatant liar in that situation? I mean, it's not like Biden was rude to Jim Lehrer like Romney was, or anything.