Iran Shows It Has What It Takes

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 08:49 AM

Quote: "not a bad slam when many consider Jesus a Liberal."

Lorax is totally perplexed now.. Thanks

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 08:52 AM

Quote: "1% classify themselves as atheist."

Yeah, sounds like some sort of majority.

Lorax · July-07-09, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by mjs

Gallup says that only 10% of Americans classify themselves as secularist and only 1% classify themselves as atheist. Yes, the people that believe in a religion were more likely to rate themselves conservative, but 58% said they were moderate or liberal.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/8239/Who-Secularists.aspx

Again, like all polls, they are only a snapshot. And Gallup is well know to have a right wing bias.

Atheism would beg to differ- I can get you polling that suggest a much greater percentage of Atheists, and growing.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 09:27 AM

Quote: "I can get you polling that suggest a much greater percentage of Atheists, and growing."

That would defy the historical precedent, in bad times people turn to religion. These are bad times.

**mjs** · July-07-09, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Lorax

I can get you polling that suggest a much greater percentage of Atheists, and growing.

A poll that a major network would cite on the evening news? Get it.

**rb336** · July-07-09, 10:13 AM

it is not so much that people self-identify as atheist - in a lot of places that can be social and career suicide - but recent polls have shown a huge upswing in people who have "no religious affiliation"

there is a bit of a myth about the whole "in times of trouble..." no-atheists-in-a-foxhole mindset. no real atheist is going to have a brain fart that drives out rationality in favor of superstition, but those who "believe in something" or who consider themselves religious but non-practicing may well return to whatever church or temple.

**Sstashmoo** · July-07-09, 10:36 AM

Quote: "it is not so much that people self-identify as atheist - in a lot of places that can be social and career suicide"

I doubt Gallup polled these people at work, polls are usually conducted over the phone.

Quote: "but recent polls have shown a huge upswing in people who have "no religious affiliation" "

Where are these polls at? And that can also mean they are "Christian" As many Christians claim to not belong to any organized religion. I would claim "no religious affiliation" as well. Meaning I don't belong to any churches.

**rb336** · July-07-09, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "it is not so much that people self-identify as atheist - in a lot of places that can be social and career suicide"

I doubt Gallup polled these people at work, polls are usually conducted over the phone.

Quote: "but recent polls have shown a huge upswing in people who have "no religious affiliation" "

Where are these polls at? And that can also mean they are "Christian" As many Christians claim to not belong to any organized religion. I would claim "no religious affiliation" as well. Meaning I don't belong to any churches.

no, the polls i've seen, and there are numerous polls out there [[i think one was done by Pew which, of course, i thought was funny) and virtually all of them had a broad range of terms terms - christian, protestant, catholic, islamic, judaic, various forms of buddhism, taoism, pagan, wiccan, atheist, agnostic, no religious affiliation, etc

**mjs** · July-07-09, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

It is not so much that people self-identify as atheist - in a lot of places that can be social and career suicide - but recent polls have shown a huge upswing in people who have "no religious affiliation".

I'm baffled as to how you ever learn anything if you can't get to the second sentence of an article before you refute it. "Gallup researchers examined the group that claims no religious preference [[whom we'll refer to as secularists)". It also says, "Results are based on 14,928 telephone interviews accumulated in polls taken between January and December 2002 with national adults, aged 18 and older."

Once again, if you claim these reputable polls exist, than show it to the rest of us. We'll not only read the first two sentences, we'll read the whole thing. As I once heard on this forum, "My real source beats your imaginary source".

ccbatson · July-07-09, 09:00 PM

Remember that atheism is not synonymous with liberalism or the Democrat party...Libertarianism, Objectivism being 2 examples of this assertion.

Lorax · July-07-09, 10:38 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/new...gion/flash.htm

Here's a poll for you guys. Click on a state and see just how many people don't identify as religious or affiliated with any organized religion.

There are many others as well, look 'em up yourself.

**Detroitej72** · July-07-09, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Remember that atheism is not synonymous with liberalism or the Democrat party...Libertarianism, Objectivism being 2 examples of this assertion.

I'm glad you get this. Its refreshing to hear it from a conservatives mouth.[[or, as is this case, keyboard!)

Many of your co-horts on the right seem to think any one on the left is an atheist, and as a Catholic, I resent that.

**mjs** · July-07-09, 11:27 PM

Here's the story that the map refers to: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...ion-ARIS_N.htm

The poll I found says 11% and that says 15%. Considering they both have margins of error, were taken at different times, and have small variations in the questions/definitions, I'd say they pretty well agree.

Remember the point of all of this? The data refutes a conclusion that every Republican is a Christian and every Christian a Republican.

BTW Lorax, the poll you found is pretty informative. I thought there were far more Jews and Muslims in the U.S.

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 08:26 AM

I thought there were far more Jews and Muslims in the U.S.
It would appear that way. I think Jews are like .2% of the US population. Something like that.

I'm all for a nation of diversity and equality, I just wish people would leave their nationality in the nation where they came from when they decide to become an AMERICAN.. If they can't then they should stay there where their heart is.

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 08:46 AM

The Polls are pretty conclusive and align with what I've said all along. 80-90% of the US believes in a supernatural power. And this bit about religion is on it's way out is total nonsense.

Lorax · July-08-09, 10:03 AM

Based on that one poll, I guess we're largely a Catholic nation. Wonder how well that would sit with the Evangelical crowd.

Suppose we had a presidential candidate who was a fundamentalist Catholic, say, like a Tom Monaghan, or that frothing Caltholic League talking head, whose name escapes me right now?

Supernatural or not, the trend is away from belief in such things, and as we advance as a global society, it will only increase, since Europe is trending heavily toward agnosticism/atheism, and as western influences penetrate the middle east more and more, hard line belief in Isalm will decrease as well.

The genie that is our influence as a secular nation has been released from the bottle. No stuffing it back in.

**rb336** · July-08-09, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

The Polls are pretty conclusive and align with what I've said all along. 80-90% of the US believes in a supernatural power. And this bit about religion is on it's way out is total nonsense.

a gallup poll from April 9, 2009, shows trends in church-going 1955-present. Catholic attendance is down from 75% to around 45%. Protestents never got above 45%.

Most people who look at those polls believe people over-report attending church, and when a deeper study was done in england, it found a high percentage of non-believing church goers who attend as a social function, but still refer to themselves as members of the Church of England, Presbyterians, etc.

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 10:40 AM

Claims with no support.

I'm an airline pilot and nuclear physicist on the side.

**mjs** · July-08-09, 11:38 AM

His poll actually does exist, but rb336, if you know the subject, the exact numbers, and even the date, why didn't you simply add a link to the bottom of your post? There are certain things we can learn from articles that can't be easily translated into summaries on them. It should help others feel more assured that your summary isn't twisting the article and that strengthens your evidence.

For example, after Sstashmoo reads the article, you guys might agree that there aren't significantly less Catholics, but rather that Catholics are significantly less adherent to Catholic teachings. Catholics are certainly more aware of Chreasters than non-Catholics.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117382/ch...otestants.aspx

**elganned** · July-08-09, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Claims with no support.

I'm an airline pilot and nuclear physicist on the side.

All I can say then is hold onto your day job...

**elganned** · July-08-09, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

The Polls are pretty conclusive and align with what I've said all along. 80-90% of the US believes in a supernatural power. And this bit about religion is on it's way out is total nonsense.

In the words of H.L.Mencken: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

**rb336** · July-08-09, 01:10 PM

or Mr Barnum's "there's a sucker born every minute"

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 01:18 PM

Batts wrote: "expression is to be free. However, organized religion exerting any influence in the operation of government is to be prohibited."

Oh really? Any religion?

**Sstashmoo** · July-08-09, 01:22 PM

Quote: "In the words of H.L.Mencken: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Yeah, it's a pretty stupid thing to do, those turning their backs on God. As I said yesterday and it was ignored, Atheists enjoy a society built on the beliefs of Godfearing people. Enjoy as long as it lasts.