Iran Shows It Has What It Takes

**gibran** · June-18-09, 04:30 AM

does the term "mutual" provocation mean anything? why do you think those countries want to develop weapons of mass destruction...ummm could it be that Israel has at least 150 nukes that could be aimed at them...I am no way justifying anything that Iran does..but let their people speak...BIBI would bomb them today if he could..sending the region into worse chaos ...or is that what some really want?

If we stand by Israel which we will, any real development will bring our wrath as well as the rest of the world's powers...but again, Iran Is not Iraq [[ much more credible threat to Israel and their existence...but not through conventional means)...maybe if the people force change..the rhetoric will subside..after all Israel and Iran were involved in clandestine cooperation in the past...and if this is their [[Iran) revolution Israel and Iran could become like Israel and Turkey...or even Egypt..

Israel has EU, China [[china gets weapon technology) and US on it's side...they could get even someof the Arab states on the bus if they would solve their indigenous people/tribal problems..

but this insane rush to confrontation would spin totally out of control...and both states become even more military minded vs peace minded with each passing conflict...to bad both have extremists in power.

**rb336** · June-18-09, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Can they afford to allow Israel to defend itself and have our limited military and full moral support? A bargain in exchange for the diminution of the threat of a nuclear Iran.

what, exactly, does Israel do for the US that is positive? it sucks more money out of us than any other foreign entity, it is an agent provocateur in the region.

**Detroitej72** · June-18-09, 06:45 PM

With all the protests going on in Iran from the election fallout, perhaps change will come from within sooner rather than later.

We can only hope and pray....

ccbatson · June-18-09, 11:17 PM

Our closest ally, and a sovereign nation is Israel.

Replace them with any other such friend and answer your own question [[Britain, Canada, etc).

**rb336** · June-19-09, 08:28 AM

you can't think of one good thing to come to the US via our support of Issrael, eh Bats? why can't you just admit defeat?

Canada -- our largest trade partner
Britain -- our lapdog

and neither get a cent of US aid

there ya go

**gibran** · June-19-09, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Our closest ally, and a sovereign nation is Israel.

Replace them with any other such friend and answer your own question [[Britain, Canada, etc).

funny thing no one ever mentions all the european nations, arab nations ie: Jordan and Kuwait or even Morocco [[ the first country to recognize the US).

ccbatson · June-19-09, 03:40 PM

No one? Have I not repeatedly described the justification of the Gulf Wars stemming from Sadaam attacking an ally of ours...Kuwait?

**rb336** · June-19-09, 03:50 PM

yet again, you missed the plainly obvious point of the comment -- gibran was clearly saying no one has mentioned the very good islamic friends we have had in the middle east

as far as your gw II bs -- hah hah that's funny

ccbatson · June-19-09, 03:55 PM

Did I not clearly point out that I have made that very point regarding Kuwait several times? Given that you [[Rb) have engaged me in debate over Kuwait several times, I would think you would have noticed.

**rb336** · June-19-09, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Did I not clearly point out that I have made that very point regarding Kuwait several times? Given that you [[Rb) have engaged me in debate over Kuwait several times, I would think you would have noticed.

yes, you have, and your contention just gets more laughable every time you make it

ccbatson · June-19-09, 03:58 PM

Thank you for admitting I am right again Rb.

**gibran** · June-19-09, 04:43 PM

Attachment 1898

Point is that we have more than one friend in the world..no qualifiers

**mjs** · June-19-09, 08:33 PM

While its no where near the 33% one website says or even near what dozens and dozens of other propaganda web sites say, Israel did get 7.5% of all US foriegn aid in 2007. Thats fifty times what our poor near neighbor Mexico gets and almost twice as much as the entire Western Hemisphere? An entire hemisphere! What was wrong with the Monroe Doctrine? Are we aware of what's going on in the poor countries to the south of us because we have a major drug problem? Parts of Mexico are like a worn torn country because of us. If anyone should be looking for revenge on Americans, it should be the poor citizens of Columbia. I can only imagine how many immigrants we could afford to let come across the border if we threw $2.5 billion a year at it. Spread that money amongst the rest of the Americas to get oil for Americans. Let Royal Dutch Shell and British Petroleum deal with the Middle East. Europe thinks it has all the answers so lets give them the chance. Muslims think Christians are so bad, let Muslims help them while we help the Christian nations to our south.

Israel usually did better than all of Africa. To beat them, you have to be involved in an active war with American troops on the ground. The holocaust was due to the Europeans. Can't they foot the bill for anything ever? Can't Israel raise these funds through private donors so Americans can actually help poor people for a change? I'm so sick of carrying the weight of the world on our backs. And why in the hell did Egypt need $1.8 billion?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/09s1257.pdf

**barnesfoto** · June-19-09, 11:29 PM

Gasp! What a great idea! While Europe, composed of countries that fought wars with each other regularly, continues to unite, even bringing a dysfunctional nation like Romania into the fold, we continue to [[mostly) ignore the countries that we share a continent with...Here's to the hopes for a "Community of the Americas" [[and to Latin America one day raising taxes on its' tiny uberwealthy elite...)

**Sstashmoo** · June-20-09, 12:31 AM

Quote: "Here's to the hopes for a "Community of the Americas" [[and to Latin America one day raising taxes on its' tiny uberwealthy elite...)"

Now who hates who?

**Red Devil** · June-20-09, 12:32 PM

"Poor Mexico...so far from God.....so close to the United States"

ccbatson · June-20-09, 02:19 PM

In general, I am not a proponent of unilateral foreign aid to anybody. That said, in the case of Israel, and yes, largely because of the issue of affordable middle east energy, we have an independent good friend which is worth a great deal.

**mjs** · June-20-09, 03:30 PM

How does an alliance with Israel get us affordable oil? If anything, I would think we could leverage ditching them to get prime contracts.

**Sstashmoo** · June-20-09, 03:45 PM

mjs, you're making way too much sense.

**gibran** · June-20-09, 06:30 PM

why not have friends with the other millions of people there also?

**Patrick** · June-20-09, 06:32 PM

largely because of the issue of affordable middle east energy, we have an independent good friend which is worth a great deal.

So when the oil runs out, I guess Israel is fucked.

ccbatson · June-20-09, 11:48 PM

Prior to Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel was the only truly reliable beach head in the middle east. If not for them, we would be at the mercy of the whims of the other bad players in the region.

Good point regarding when the oil runs out, and not a bad thing for the enemies of Israel to be of less interest, influence, and power in the world.

**Sstashmoo** · June-21-09, 12:16 AM

Quote: "reliable beach head"

Are you serious? Why didn't we use it when we invaded Iraq?

Quote: " If not for them, we would be at the mercy of the whims of the other bad players in the region."

If not for the Likud's in the region there wouldn't be any. These people are pissed about the Likud's treatment of the Palestinians and our support politically and financially of those actions. That's it in a nutshell. Forget they "hate our western ways" and all the other nonsense.

**gnome** · June-21-09, 11:28 AM

The stuff going on in Iran is shocking. That footage of that 16 yr old Neda girl is sad in a thousand ways. I salute their struggle and pray things settle down soon.

We may have our problems here in America, but ...

**gibran** · June-21-09, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Prior to Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel was the only truly reliable beach head in the middle east. If not for them, we would be at the mercy of the whims of the other bad players in the region.

Good point regarding when the oil runs out, and not a bad thing for the enemies of Israel to be of less interest, influence, and power in the world.

I guess that arab nations who for decades supported us were not in your book reliable..you need to read Carter's latest book: in his chapter on Camp David [[he said that Saudi and Egypt put forth full recognition of Israel and trade etc.and Begin accepted all conditions for peace with Egypt) all Israel had to do then and according to agreements which Begin agreed to at Camp David is recognition and autonomy of Palestinians..to date Egypt and Saudi have never again attacked Israel..but Israel continued to violate camp David's original agreement with settlements and with the treatment of Palestinians [[no full autonomy)..we never get the real story...cc we have good relations with Jordan; Syria fought with us in GWI; Lebanon has a mixed relationship;, Morocco has based our troops and we have bases in Turkey and Kuwaiti. I just talked to a GWII vet who spent a year in Egypt...support system...we have friend there...we don't have the hearts and minds of all that don't know us..but newsflash we would if we had a fair and balanced approach and were seen as peacemakers...

I read an article about how to love Israel and protect it written in an Israeli newspaper..you know how? hold it accountable, be critical of it's policies and to fulfill the road-map ; or the Saudi Plan for peace or even a new hybred version. Then we can hold their neighbors equally accountable to develop a realistic security plan..and you know who might pull it off ...this admin...and that scare a majority of right wing folks doesn't it.