Q Line "Constructive Criticism"

**professorscott** · January-22-18, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan

A commuter rail line only makes sense under a few conditions:
1) A Downtown Station.
2) Frequent trains.
3. A few more stations.
4. Please, please better trains.

Also, the #1 reason I’ve observed that suburbanites won’t Ride SMART?

Hi MF,

Your thoughts in regard to commuter rail are on point, but unfortunately the plan doesn't provide for any of these. Of them, "more stations" is possible but unlikely. There's no money to connect tracks so the trains can get downtown, and since the freight rail companies own the tracks, it is absolutely impossible to get frequent service; they won't allow it and they don't have to. We won't get better trains for the same reason we won't get more stations: there's no money available. Any major revision to the plan would be unlikely to gain any traction in government right now. If there ever is a well-funded RTA, then maybe it can start to try to address some of these things.

Incidentally, the original reason for the QLine is based on the idea that [[1) the AA-D commuter rail would be running, but [[2) could not get people all the way to downtown. It's morphed from that, but that was the reason we started planning that, ten or twelve years ago, in the first place.

I think in regard to SMART buses there is a much more important reason why the ridership is low: there aren't enough buses, they don't run often enough and they don't come anywhere near where most people live. I hope Royal Oak does decide to put in some kind of local transit system; then we will be able to see what happens to ridership when we do give people decent connections that come near their homes and grocery stores and so on.

**MicrosoftFan** · January-22-18, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Hi MF,

Your thoughts in regard to commuter rail are on point, but unfortunately the plan doesn't provide for any of these. Of them, "more stations" is possible but unlikely. There's no money to connect tracks so the trains can get downtown, and since the freight rail companies own the tracks, it is absolutely impossible to get frequent service; they won't allow it and they don't have to. We won't get better trains for the same reason we won't get more stations: there's no money available. Any major revision to the plan would be unlikely to gain any traction in government right now. If there ever is a well-funded RTA, then maybe it can start to try to address some of these things.

Incidentally, the original reason for the QLine is based on the idea that [[1) the AA-D commuter rail would be running, but [[2) could not get people all the way to downtown. It's morphed from that, but that was the reason we started planning that, ten or twelve years ago, in the first place.

I think in regard to SMART buses there is a much more important reason why the ridership is low: there aren't enough buses, they don't run often enough and they don't come anywhere near where most people live. I hope Royal Oak does decide to put in some kind of local transit system; then we will be able to see what happens to ridership when we do give people decent connections that come near their homes and grocery stores and so on.

On a good day the current RTA plan for CR will get ~1000 riders per day. Sure, it’s great if you want go from Eastern to Wayne State every day, but for any downtown commuters it’s a hassle to get on a streetcars that might get delayed, not to mention they have to drive to a station 10 miles from their house every day. Not to mention that past Dearborn, the population density drops until Ypsilanti and nobody is getting on/off there.

If they’re going to build a commuter rail line I hope it runs to Pontiac instead. A much denser corridor.

A path to a downtown station is also feasibly possible, as I outlined in a previous post. While it would be extremely inefficient to Pontiac passengers, it would work well for Dearborn Ann Arbor passengers.

Another route which I have not outlined to a downtown station would be NS boat line to Rosa Parks Blvd—-> cut and cover tunnel under Jefferson [[needs to be repaved anyway) —> Station on Joe Louis site.

**drjeff** · January-23-18, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan

On a good day the current RTA plan for CR will get ~1000 riders per day. Sure, it’s great if you want go from Eastern to Wayne State every day, but for any downtown commuters it’s a hassle to get on a streetcars that might get delayed, not to mention they have to drive to a station 10 miles from their house every day. Not to mention that past Dearborn, the population density drops until Ypsilanti and nobody is getting on/off there.

I live in Ypsi and work in midtown. I'm not the only one. Do you realize how freaking far it is between Dearborn and Ann Arbor? Without the Ypsi station you would be eliminating a huge number of potential users who don't want to drive 15+ miles out of the way to take a train. Not to mention, nobody in their right mind would battle Ann Arbor traffic every morning [[which is usually more congested between US 23 and State Street than anything I normally see commuting to Detroit) to get on a train.

**Honky Tonk** · January-23-18, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

I live in Ypsi and work in midtown. I'm not the only one. Do you realize how freaking far it is between Dearborn and Ann Arbor? Without the Ypsi station you would be eliminating a huge number of potential users who don't want to drive 15+ miles out of the way to take a train. Not to mention, nobody in their right mind would battle Ann Arbor traffic every morning [[which is usually more congested between US 23 and State Street than anything I normally see commuting to Detroit) to get on a train.

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but there are no commuter trains from the Baltimore Ave. station to A2 or Ypsi?

**ndavies** · January-23-18, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but there are no commuter trains from the Baltimore Ave. station to A2 or Ypsi?

There are currently no commuter trains in southeast Michigan. The only trains in southeast MI are Amtrak, the Qline and the people mover. The handful of daily Amtrak trains are the only service between Midtown and A2. They are definitely not commuter class. They are the trains that run to Chicago and back.

**Honky Tonk** · January-23-18, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

There are currently no commuter trains in southeast Michigan. The only trains in southeast MI are Amtrak, the Qline and the people mover. The handful of daily Amtrak trains are the only service between Midtown and A2. They are definitely not commuter class. They are the trains that run to Chicago and back.

Ok, Thanx. Years ago, I remember taking Amtrack from the old Dearborn station to downtown A2. Seems like it would be a good opportunity for them.

**professorscott** · January-23-18, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

I live in Ypsi and work in midtown. I'm not the only one. Do you realize how freaking far it is between Dearborn and Ann Arbor? Without the Ypsi station you would be eliminating a huge number of potential users who don't want to drive 15+ miles out of the way to take a train. Not to mention, nobody in their right mind would battle Ann Arbor traffic every morning [[which is usually more congested between US 23 and State Street than anything I normally see commuting to Detroit) to get on a train.

Thank you, drjeff, for allowing me to convey some good news, which is vanishingly rare these days. The commuter rail plan absolutely includes an Ypsilanti station in downtown Ypsi; it is not going to only use the Amtrak stations, though it will use them. There will also be a station somewhere near the airport. There may be one additional station as well, but I haven't looked at the detailed plan in quite a while.