Henderson Goes Nuclear on Kid Rock/Ilitch

[Oddz313]

I kind of wish people would just ignore him because for a celeb any type of publicity is good publicity, especially for someone that has not been popular with the youth in 15 years and has not had a hit in about 10. In other states they wonder if Kid Rock is still a thing, only here is he really relevant.

[ABetterDetroit]

I see this as a blown opportunity.

When on the Q-line this summer, I noticed on a few occasions that the riders who where the most excited to go by the new arena were the kids. It brought back memories of pestering my uncle to drive by Tiger Stadium so we could catch a glimpse, however brief, of the Tigers' house.

Let's be honest here, a new stadium is not really all that unusual around here if you're old enough to remember the others when they went up and opened. For kids this is all new and exciting.

The no brainer would have been to have a grand opening family-oriented entertainment show that was something billed along the lines of the 'Future Detroit Stars' and had a variety show with some young talent from the city that forked over money to help build the arena.

They could have had some try outs, found the best talent under twenty they could and had a couple dress rehearsals at the Joe and gone with it for 3 or 4 nights. $7 uppers and $12 lowers with a free pop and a slice of pizza and dare I say free parking. Give blocks of tickets to youth organizations and other charities. Had Carmen Harlen MC it. Shown a film about all the great musical talent that came out of the City of Detroit over the years. Maybe even Aretha would have closed it out with a song. It would have been good practice for the new systems in place and I don't think anyone would have cared if the contractors were still finishing out the punch list before or after the shows.

If something along these lines was done, it would have gone far to set an example that this building is also about the dreams of young people and not just about people with money buying expensive seats. Afterwards, I don't think anyone would have noticed whether it was Kid Rock, 50 Cent or Paul McCartney who was booked in next. The Ilitch family will earn well off the LCA. Not doing something like this first was a blown opportunity for some good PR with some family's that might not have the cash to take in the Wings or Pistons this season.

[aj3647]

I see Kid Rock called out Colin Kapernick at his Grand Rapids show last night for disrespecting the flag and anthem by kneeling during it. Technically, Kid Rock is correct. United States Code, 36 U.S.C. § 301 states that the proper etiquette for the national anthem is to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

Kid Rock would NEVER do something so disrespectful. He would never, for example, violate flag etiquette as outlined in the United States Flag Code [[Chapter 1, Title 4 of the United States Code). He would never in a million years do that, because he loves the flag and respects it. He would never, for example, wear the American flag as clothing [["the flag shall not be worn as apparel"), which violates U.S. flag etiquette and is extremely disrespectful to the flag.

Kid Rock would never do that.

[gnome]

Do you understand how astoundingly ridiculous that statement is? That is akin to saying about a person who never consumes alcohol, it can be said that if you don't think you're an alcoholic, that is proof that you are one.

Well, if racism is a mental illness and alcoholism is a mental illness, then I would have to agree. But the issue of drawing parallels between two different subjects is problematic because one thing is not another; moreover, your argument relies on the word IF as though invoking a completely different concept validates your point of view.

The truth is that IF is a weak rhetorical device designed to cloud a discussion in a never ending supposition that IF actually exists.

I commonly say that IF dinosaurs still existed we wouldn't have waitresses because the dinosaurs little arms couldn't reach their waistcoats.

So, Sy, next time try not to IF your way into relevance.

Now, back to the existing argument...

[SyGolden48236]

Well, if racism is a mental illness and alcoholism is a mental illness, then I would have to agree. But the issue of drawing parallels between two different subjects is problematic because one thing is not another; moreover, your argument relies on the word IF as though invoking a completely different concept validates your point of view.

The truth is that IF is a weak rhetorical device designed to cloud a discussion in a never ending supposition that IF actually exists.

I commonly say that IF dinosaurs still existed we wouldn't have waitresses because the dinosaurs little arms couldn't reach their waistcoats.

So, Sy, next time try not to IF your way into relevance.

Now, back to the existing argument...

What in the world are you talking about?? Your original statement in post #67 was "In fact, it can be said, if you don't think you are a racist, that is proof you are one."

Your arrogance does not negate the fact that you also used a so-called "weak rhetorical device designed to cloud a discussion in a never ending supposition that IF actually exists."

It is patently asinine to suggest that somebody who does not think they are a racist is definitely a racist merely because they think that they are not.

That is the problem with arrogant, self-righteous people on the left. They like to point all kinds of fingers at everyone who holds a different viewpoint than they do. They believe that they are morally superior and more intelligent. They like to label everyone and every thing. They also like to think that by claiming someone or something is racist that they have won any and all debates. It is a very intellectually weak "weapon" and fortunately it is losing its effectiveness. Nobody is saying that racism does not exist but it does not exist around every corner and not everything that you disagree with is racist. To make a statement like you did originally is utterly reprehensible.

If you insist upon equating what you term as a "mental illness", racism, with another "mental illness" I'll play your silly little game for a moment. If you think you're not making absurd left wing loony statements that that is proof that you are.

You see, one of the big reasons that the left got trounced in the last election is that people are tired of this hyper politically correct nonsense that has run amok. People are tired of being told that everyone is a victim or is "marginalized". People are tired of smug lefties always trying to force their viewpoints down other people's throats. People are tired of the pseudo "intelligence" and contrived moral superiority that lefties spew.

[gnome]

Gosh Sy, hate to break it to you but I am still a registered Republican, have held office as one and even worked on Goldwater's campaign in 1964.

I just don't happen to be hateful towards others outside of my tribe and kinda think it is sort of nasty to do so.

But thanks for letting everyone know where you stand; it's always refreshing to bare one's soul and declare one's beliefs.

I am sure others here will regard your singular perspicacity as equally interesting and will view all your other opinions as I do.

[SyGolden48236]

Gosh Sy, hate to break it to you but I am still a registered Republican, have held office as one and even worked on Goldwater's campaign in 1964.

I just don't happen to be hateful towards others outside of my tribe and kinda think it is sort of nasty to do so.

But thanks for letting everyone know where you stand; it's always refreshing to bare one's soul and declare one's beliefs.

I am sure others here will regard your singular perspicacity as equally interesting and will view all your other opinions as I do.

So, you think I am "hateful to others outside of my tribe". If you knew the first damned thing about me, my wife or my children you would be utterly embarrassed by that statement. That is, if you have any perspicacity of your own. It is quite apparent that you do not.

You see, friend, I have been married to the most amazing woman on Earth for many years now. This wonderful woman happens to be black and catholic. How is that for "outside my tribe"? Our children are half black and half white. So your statement is most ignorant and could not possibly be more wrong. You're batting a thousand so far with your assumptions.

We do not see everything in this beautiful country as black or white. We see people as people and not black people or white people. It is very sad and nasty that you do not do the same. But that is your right in this country to do just that.

[Bigdd]

I see Kid Rock called out Colin Kapernick at his Grand Rapids show last night for disrespecting the flag and anthem by kneeling during it. Technically, Kid Rock is correct. United States Code, 36 U.S.C. § 301 states that the proper etiquette for the national anthem is to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

I think that Wiki page is incorrect. While it has become "custom" to place your hand over your heart during the anthem [[and salute if military in uniform),.. that was never a requirement like it is for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I'm pretty sure that for the anthem,.. you're just supposed to stand and face the flag [[if there is one).

If you go to the Wiki page for Pledge of Allegiance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
,.. you'll see where the "custom" came from in the Anthem page. It's at the bottom of the section titled "Recital".

........which violates U.S. flag etiquette and is extremely disrespectful to the flag.

Kid Rock would never do that.

That bugs the hell out of me too. [[Though I'm somehow less offended when it's worn like this.)


He even has it on backwards [[unless that pic is reversed). The blue with the stars should always be at the top left. [[You actually display the back side when hanging it vertically to accomplish this).
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tates_Flag.svg

[gnome]

So, you think I am "hateful to others outside of my tribe". If you knew the first damned thing about me, my wife or my children you would be utterly embarrassed by that statement. That is, if you have any perspicacity of your own. It is quite apparent that you do not.

You see, friend, I have been married to the most amazing woman on Earth for many years now. This wonderful woman happens to be black and catholic. How is that for "outside my tribe"? Our children are half black and half white. So your statement is most ignorant and could not possibly be more wrong. You're batting a thousand so far with your assumptions.

We do not see everything in this beautiful country as black or white. We see people as people and not black people or white people. It is very sad and nasty that you do not do the same. But that is your right in this country to do just that.

Jeeze, Sy, looks like we agree again. Your lovely wife must indeed to be a saint as she gets to experience your gentle nature on a daily basis.

[aj3647]

I think that Wiki page is incorrect. While it has become "custom" to place your hand over your heart during the anthem [[and salute if military in uniform),.. that was never a requirement like it is for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I'm pretty sure that for the anthem,.. you're just supposed to stand and face the flag [[if there is one).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

[[a)Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

[[b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem— [[1) when the flag is displayed— [[A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

[[B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

[[C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

That's the literal text found in the U.S. Code. Of course there is no penalty for not doing it [[as doing so would be a violation of the First Amendment), so basically it's just officially-prescribed suggested etiquette.

The difference here is that Colin Kaepernick's violation of Anthem etiquette has enraged millions of Americans while Kid Rock violating flag etiquette earns a collective shoulder shrug from America. I wonder what the difference is between the two men that their similar breaches of etiquette would elicit two completely polar opposite reactions?

[mikehamm45]

What does it even mean to be a conservative anymore? Or any political label for that matter. When I see Kid Rock, I do not see a fiscal conservative or a social conservative or a religious conservative.

[Bham1982]

We see people as people and not black people or white people. It is very sad and nasty that you do not do the same. But that is your right in this country to do just that.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe a word you write. You've been outspoken in your cultist devotion to Trump, and have repeatedly defended his Neo-Nazi sympathies, his virulent racism, and general stupidity and incompetence.

Now you claim to be some paragon of civil rights, while simultaneously trying to normalize and excuse Neo Nazis and white supremacists. Don't believe it for a second.

[Richard]

What does it even mean to be a conservative anymore? Or any political label for that matter. When I see Kid Rock, I do not see a fiscal conservative or a social conservative or a religious conservative.

If I do not agree with you,I need a label to attach in order to gain support from others.Totaly irrelevant if you are right or wrong.

[Bigdd]

The difference here is that Colin Kaepernick's violation of Anthem etiquette has enraged millions of Americans while Kid Rock violating flag etiquette earns a collective shoulder shrug from America. I wonder what the difference is between the two men that their similar breeches of etiquette would elicit two completely polar opposite reactions?

Duh. One is trying to be patriotic [[but failing to do his homework,.. which is ignorant),.. and the other is intentionally trying to insult the entire country. [[which he succeeded at ) You'd have to be blind not to see that.

I agree though,.. that technically,. the two breeches in etiquette are on the same level. The intent however is clearly night and day different.

kind of like how being involved with anther's death can go a lot of ways.
Not intending to and not being negligent = Accident
Not intending to and BEING negligent... = Manslaughter
Intending to cause the death........... = Second degree murder
Planning to cause the death......... = First degree murder

The intent is a big deal.

[southen]

Nothing is more patriotic then a guy who waved a confederate flag for a decade, am I right? One is also trying to change the country for the better while the other one has co-opted patriotism to make a buck.

[Zacha341]

You can be conservative without being far right wing. It simply means you agree to some conservative ideas, and not the extreme agenda. Same with being liberal without being on board with leftism and the far left.

Black people have been hosed over by both the extreme left and right, so I feel we best hold our cards close and carefully watch not just what people say [[promises), but what they do.

What does it even mean to be a conservative anymore? Or any political label for that matter. When I see Kid Rock, I do not see a fiscal conservative or a social conservative or a religious conservative.

[Bigdd]

Nothing is more patriotic then a guy who waved a confederate flag for a decade, am I right? One is also trying to change the country for the better while the other one has co-opted patriotism to make a buck.

The Confederate flag does not = slavery, at least not in the minds of most people in the South. That may be all that YOU can see when you look at that flag,... but that's YOUR issue to deal with.

Southerners viewed the civil war [[The War of Northern Aggression as they called it) as being over "State's rights", taxation, their right to secede, and slavery. And also as a simpler way of life. VERY few southerners owned slaves, and none of the ones alive today. I highly doubt any of the people that have flown the Conf Flag in the last 80 years are actually wishing they could buy themselves some slaves.

[Zads07]

The Confederate flag does not = slavery, at least not in the minds of most people in the South. That may be all that YOU can see when you look at that flag,... but that's YOUR issue to deal with.

Southerners view the civil war [[The War of Northern Aggression) as being over "State's rights", taxation, their right to secede, etc. And also as a simpler way of life. VERY few southerners owned slaves, and none of the ones alive today. I highly doubt any of the people that have flown the Conf Flag in the last 80 years are actually wishing they could buy themselves some slaves.

Ok seriously stop this. The Confederate flag does equal slavery. Yes, the south was fighting for states rights but also to keep slavery. If you could cite stats for those who did and did not own slaves, I'd love to see that, otherwise you can't make that argument. Also, the KKK was created not long after the Civil War was over, during Reconstruction because white people could no longer legally own slaves in the south. Please stop with this incredibly false post and read up on your history.

[ABetterDetroit]

The Confederate flag does not = slavery, at least not in the minds of most people in the South. That may be all that YOU can see when you look at that flag,... but that's YOUR issue to deal with.

Southerners viewed the civil war [[The War of Northern Aggression as they called it) as being over "State's rights", taxation, their right to secede, and slavery. And also as a simpler way of life. VERY few southerners owned slaves, and none of the ones alive today. I highly doubt any of the people that have flown the Conf Flag in the last 80 years are actually wishing they could buy themselves some slaves.

All the above statement shows is that you don't know anything about the actual history and you believe what some other person who doesn't care about the history either wants you to believe.

The history leading up to the civil war is well preserved in the congressional record. There isn't a way out of it no matter how badly anyone wants it to be about something else because that would be so convenient in today's politics.

The civil war was 100% about slavery and its abolishment on American soil. Front and center, the catalyst, exactly what the whole damn thing was about.

[aj3647]

VERY few southerners owned slaves, and none of the ones alive today.

Most of what you said was wrong, but I'll just start here with this huge flaming whopper of a lie.

http://www.history.com/news/history-...-about-slavery

1 in 3 Southern white families owned slaves. 40% of the South's population in 1860 was black slaves [[that's 3.5 million slaves), but you really expect us to believe that it was just a handful of whites that owned them all?

If your argument is that just because your father [[or grandfather) technically owned the slaves and not you, that you didn't directly benefit from it, then that is still bullshit. If your family owned slaves, then your family's collective wealth was built on the backs of slaves. You still benefit from that even if you aren't the legal owner.

Also, even those whites who didn't own slaves were economically invested in maintaining the institution of human slavery for a great many reasons. For starters, if the black slaves were freed, then they would then become competition for poor Southern whites in the unskilled labor market. This would make freed blacks an economic threat to uneducated poor whites who did not own slaves. Also, even whites who didn't own slaves benefited from slavery because the economic wealth of the South generated on the backs of slave labor would have benefitted everyone. The South's agriculturally-based economy was dependent on slave labor and even poor non-slave-owning whites would have suffered if the very institution underpinning their entire economy were to go away overnight.

Third, even the poorest, most uneducated white Southerner at the time saw himself as morally and racially superior to every black slave. Whether they owned slaves or not, Southern whites would have wanted blacks to remain slaves so that they could be "controlled" and not threaten the white power structure. If blacks were free, then maybe one day they could also vote...and own land and businesses and maybe even run for political office. Southern whites, rich or poor, slave-owning or not, would have seen that as a threat to their privileged place at the top of the racial food chain.

[Bigdd]

Ok seriously stop this. The Confederate flag does equal slavery. Yes, the south was fighting for states rights but also to keep slavery. If you could cite stats for those who did and did not own slaves, I'd love to see that, otherwise you can't make that argument. Also, the KKK was created not long after the Civil War was over, during Reconstruction because white people could no longer legally own slaves in the south. Please stop with this incredibly false post and read up on your history.

Census data shows that 394,000 people owned slaves pre-Civil War,.. out of a free population of 27,233,000. So about 1.5% of people owned slaves.

And roughly 0% of the people in the South that fly the Confederate flag today do.


So YOU think that when a Southern person flys a Confederate flag,.. they are wishing for the return of slavery? I find that had to believe.

I guess it's safe to say no one on here voted for either of the Clinton's.

Bill signed 1-7-107 of Arkansas code, which states in part,.. The Saturday immediately preceding Easter Sunday of each year is designated as ‘Confederate Flag Day’ in this state.

He also signed into law Act 116, designating "The blue star above the word “ARKANSAS” on the flag is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.”


And both he and Hillary have ties to the KKK.


Here Hillary is kissing Robert Bird, former Grand Dragon of the KKK.


If you have issues with a flag,.. then you must have a hundred page diatribe posted somewhere railing against the Clintons. Link ?

[aj3647]

Duh. One is trying to be patriotic [[but failing to do his homework,.. which is ignorant),.. and the other is intentionally trying to insult the entire country. [[which he succeeded at ) You'd have to be blind not to see that.

I agree though,.. that technically,. the two breeches in etiquette are on the same level. The intent however is clearly night and day different...

The intent is a big deal.

You're right, intent is a big deal.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ational-anthem

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder", referencing a series of events that led to the Black Lives Matter movement and adding that he would continue to protest until he feels like "[the American flag] represents what it's supposed to represent"

Nothing in there about trying to "disrespect the entire country." And indeed, not everyone in America sees it the way you do either. Here's some people who support Kap's protest who have done more than you to deserve the right to hold that opinion:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/mili...l-49ers-anthem

There were many instances of Right Wing white men flying the American flag upside down during the Obama years [[to indicate distress) as a form of political protest against Obama. Were they disrespecting the flag too? Why was no one calling them out for it? Every time I go to a sporting event, when the Anthem plays, I see plenty of people [[many of them white) playing on their phones, talking loudly to friends, not removing their hats, etc. Nobody says a goddamn word to them. A black guy takes a knee in silent protest? White people foam at the mouth with rage.

[aj3647]

Census data shows that 394,000 people owned slaves pre-Civil War,.. out of a free population of 27,233,000. So about 1.5% of people owned slaves.

The Confederate States of America had a total population of 9.1 million people, of which 3.5 million were slaves and 5.6 million were "free." NOT "27 million" as you falsely claim. So that would be 6% of the free population that owned slaves, but more accurately if you look at families, 1 in 3 families owned slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confed...a#Demographics

You know when you lie, we can fact check that, right?

[Wesley Mouch]

"little bit of tax money" = $324 million in taxpayer funds, much of which would have gone to schoolchidren

How dare the rabble speak up against their overlords...

That $324 million plus all the lottery money over the last 25 years has really made a difference!

Do you really think $324m would be added to the school budget? If it were, do you really think any of it would have made it through the sewage pipe to the students?

4.) Robert Ritchie is also a racist. This is a fact. You cannot disprove this. He waves a Confederate flag and yelled F**k Colin Kaepernick at a concert.

We'd be better people if we didn't scream 'racist' at everybody who ever behaved within recent social norms. I don't know what's in Mr. Ritchie's mind. But I do personally know a few self-proclaimed rednecks who have Confederate Flags on their cars. Not the least bit racist, with black family members. Flag waver = racist is not true, and proves nothing except that they are proud of their heritage -- imperfect heritage to be sure, with racist history.

And F*** Colin K? That's just about the nicest think that should be said towards a self-important, pompous fool who is better at stoking racist fires than tossing a football. [[Pretty smart of him, though, to play into his strength. If he'd just stood up, nobody would know his name.)

[aj3647]

We'd be better people if we didn't scream 'racist' at everybody who ever behaved within recent social norms. I don't know what's in Mr. Ritchie's mind. But I do personally know a few self-proclaimed rednecks who have Confederate Flags on their cars. Not the least bit racist, with black family members. Flag waver = racist is not true, and proves nothing except that they are proud of their heritage -- imperfect heritage to be sure, with racist history.

Ummmm, you can't sell the whole "it's my heritage" argument when you're waving the Confederate flag in Michigan.

You guys know which side of the Civil War Michigan fought on, right? Kid Rock, born and raised in Romeo Michigan, but yeah he's just celebrating his "heritage." The only "heritage" Kid Rock has in common with the soldiers of the Confederacy is skin color.

Also here's a little history lesson: 15,000 Michigan soldiers died during the Civil War, fighting the Confederacy. There's your heritage, right there. But keep on defending the flag of the traitors they died fighting.