Welcome To Trump World

[Shelby_]

To restate my original point:

Pulling SOF from Syria is a huge mistake that will have far reaching consequences that President Trump doesn't, or more likely cannot comprehend.

In the future we will be less safe and we have DJT to thank for it.

Trump says: “I was elected on getting out of these ridiculous endless wars” that have left America “bogged down, watching over a quagmire.”

Many who support his action claim he is keeping his promises. His promises are based in ignorance.

His promises ignore facts and are, in Trump's vernacular, bullshit:

Currently the U.S. has approximately 20,000 soldiers spread out through Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These forces are not engaged in "forever wars." They are engaged in a noncombat mission known as "train, advise and assist." As I mentioned yesterday, the larger goal is defeating, or at least controlling terrorism by, with, and through partners by building coalitions [[BPC)

Prior to Trump's election, I understand why he would see things the way he does. However, after becoming president, he had unencumbered access to DOD and Pentagon advisors who would have explained why and where we have troops. He had the facts and despite that still did the thing that was in his own best interest [[appeasing his base), rather than doing what was in the best interest of humanity.

Anecdotally, aside the 20,000 in the middle east, we have about 37,950 U.S. troops in Germany, 12,750 in Italy, 3200, in Spain, 9300 in the UK, 53,900 in Japan, 28,500 in South Korea, 6000 at Gitmo and thousands more I'm forgetting.

oladub wrote:
We have been in Iraq since 2003 and it has cost the lives of U.S. 3,598 soldiers...The Afghanistan war has cost 2,419 U.S. lives.

Since 2006 15,851 active-duty personnel and mobilized reservists have died while serving in in the U.S. armed forces. The majority, nearly 75%, died in training accidents. Should we stop training?

oladub wrote:
Trump remains the only President to not engage in a new war of major act of war since Carter.

Trump has created a situation that future leaders will have to deal with for years to come. This action has undone years of work soldiers did in the middle east [[me included) to build partnerships and earn trust. I have yet to encounter a veteran who agrees with Trump's "decision."

oladub wrote:
How convenient it is to forget that the larger problem in Syria was caused by Obama's Kerry and Hillary State Department policies which allowed ISIS to grow in an attempt to overthrow Assad but instead brought in Russia and resulted in death, destruction and refugees. The Turkish border invasion and repatriation of Syrian refugees is a subset of the consequences of mostly Democratic policies also supported by neocon Republicans.

I didn't forget anything.Digging up past events that cannot be changed and bitching about them ad nauseam is counter productive though.

Trump has taken a bad situation that was starting to come together and made it forever TARFU.

oladub wrote:
I'm quick to give Trump credit for bringing troops back home.

And yet he has deployed 3,000 to Saudi Arabia to protect oil. I hope you are just as quick to criticize Trump for that.

BTW Trump hasn't brought them home from Syria. They were pulled back and are sitting in a safe zone, devastated that they cannot assist their allies for whom they had great respect.

[oladub]

To restate my original point:

Pulling SOF from Syria is a huge mistake that will have far reaching consequences that President Trump doesn't, or more likely cannot comprehend.

In the future we will be less safe and we have DJT to thank for it.

Trump says: “I was elected on getting out of these ridiculous endless wars” that have left America “bogged down, watching over a quagmire.”

Many who support his action claim he is keeping his promises. His promises are based in ignorance.

His promises ignore facts and are, in Trump's vernacular, bullshit:

And yet he has deployed 3,000 to Saudi Arabia to protect oil. I hope you are just as quick to criticize Trump for that.

BTW Trump hasn't brought them home from Syria. They were pulled back and are sitting in a safe zone, devastated that they cannot assist their allies for whom they had great respect.

^^Name calling and opinions.^^ Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees later, we are in quagmire created mostly by Obama and W. Bush who are guilty of all the things you imagine Trump might do. Trump has brought about half the troops home from Syria. He gets a lot of resistance from people like you when he removes any and then you criticize him for not having getting them out as fast as he wanted.

U.S. troops shouldn't be sent to Saudi Arabia either. Trump has no business sending them there. Like in Syria, no good can come of it. I'm consistent. You aren't. Let Europe and Japan do the heavy lifting. They use more Saudi oil than we do.

the U.S. has approximately 20,000 soldiers spread out through Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These forces are not engaged in "forever wars." They are engaged in a noncombat mission known as "train, advise and assist." As I mentioned yesterday, the larger goal is defeating, or at least controlling terrorism by, with, and through partners by building coalitions [[BPC)

Prior to Trump's election, I understand why he would see things the way he does. However, after becoming president, he had unencumbered access to DOD and Pentagon advisors who would have explained why and where we have troops. He had the facts and despite that still did the thing that was in his own best interest [[appeasing his base), rather than doing what was in the best interest of humanity.

Bring some of those troops home. "Forever wars" suffices after 17 or 18 years. "For almost 17 years, the United States has waged a “war on terror” that, by any rational measure, has backfired catastrophically. There is more terrorist activity today than there was when we invaded Afghanistan in 2001." -The Nation 6/18/18

Handing over international policy to military experts seems creepy to me. Dan Wesson was on the money with the Doctor Strangelove video. 'Trust the military. We know what's good for you' somehow reminds me of a Sartre play I once saw. It began in early 30's Spain and just a couple of police would be seen at the beginning of the play. By the end of the play, police and military uniforms were all over and everyone else had lost their freedoms.

[QUOTE=Shelby_;581193] Anecdotally, aside the 20,000 in the middle east, we have about 37,950 U.S. troops in Germany, 12,750 in Italy, 3200, in Spain, 9300 in the UK, 53,900 in Japan, 28,500 in South Korea, 6000 at Gitmo and thousands more I'm forgetting.

Since 2006 15,851 active-duty personnel and mobilized reservists have died while serving in in the U.S. armed forces. The majority, nearly 75%, died in training accidents. Should we stop training?

We would be training anyway. The option is to fight undeclared, creeping mission, never ending wars that have resulted in thousands of American deaths since Korea. 60,000 just in Vietnam. That's what I'm addressing.

Trump has created a situation that future leaders will have to deal with for years to come. This action has undone years of work soldiers did in the middle east [[me included) to build partnerships and earn trust. I have yet to encounter a veteran who agrees with Trump's "decision."

we are still dealing with situations caused by W. Bush and Obama. Military personnel aren't supposed to be insulting their Commander in Chief. I've talked to a lot of vets who describe the wars they've been sent off to in less favorable terms. How much longer do you think we should have stayed in Vietnam? I'm sure there were some vets who made friends and respected their allies there too. Life goes on. Vietnam is more prosperous than ever. I guess they didn't need us dropping bombs on them.

I didn't forget anything.Digging up past events that cannot be changed and bitching about them ad nauseam is counter productive though.

Trump has taken a bad situation that was starting to come together and made it forever TARFU.

I disagree. Take off your blinders. The big picture has to include which leaders got us into the mess in Syria, questions why we are stationing troops in Syria after our goal has been accomplished and recognizes that the military solutions the McCains of this country implemented failed and probably won't work the next time either. Those of you who advocate casual military solutions should take some responsibility for the thousands of American deaths, hundreds of thousands of dead Arabs and millions of refugees caused by your failed policies.