Once ubiquitous, parking garages fall to the wrecking ball

**Wesley Mouch** · February-06-15, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It was always a dubious claim that lack of parking led to downtown's downfall. If everyone needed massive amounts of parking to make downtown Detroit viable, then how did it become a dense center in the first place? And why are all of the most vibrant urban centers so short on parking?

The truth is that space is too valuable to vibrant urban centers to dedicate so much space to unproductive uses like parking. It is simple economics. To build a vibrant urban center you need ways to move people in, out, and around, that doesn't require half of the space to be unproductive dead spaces to store cars.

It is simply untrue that lack of parking led to downtown's downfall. But it is 100% true that outside of NYC, SF & Chicago, most downtowns fell out of favor partly because retail customers and office workers preferred car culture and 'free' parking.

Fortunately, the balance is being restored, and central cities that rely on transit and expensive parking are again in vogue.

But the argument that if only we'd provided more parking, downtown Detroit would have been saved is silly.

**ghettopalmetto** · February-06-15, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

It is simply untrue that lack of parking led to downtown's downfall. But it is 100% true that outside of NYC, SF & Chicago, most downtowns fell out of favor partly because retail customers and office workers preferred car culture and 'free' parking.

It's not that preferences changed, per se. It's that after folks moved miles from the city into the cornfields [[thanks to some heavy subsidies and regulation), they didn't feel like driving half-an-hour to buy things they could get at the brand new shopping mall near their new villa.

And it's simply not true that downtowns in New York, Chicago, and San Francisco never fell out of favor. In the 1970s and 1980s, those places were upheld as the epitome of everything that was wrong with city living.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-06-15, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

It's not that preferences changed, per se. It's that after folks moved miles from the city into the cornfields [[thanks to some heavy subsidies and regulation), they didn't feel like driving half-an-hour to buy things they could get at the brand new shopping mall near their new villa.

And it's simply not true that downtowns in New York, Chicago, and San Francisco never fell out of favor. In the 1970s and 1980s, those places were upheld as the epitome of everything that was wrong with city living.

The City of Chicago, for example, in the late 1980s still held 1/2 of the jobs in the Chicagoland region. Detroit by comparison fell to about 10,000 downtown jobs in a region of 4m. Sure, apples to oranges... but I think my point is clear. We would have been happy to have done as well as Chicago. We didn't. Downtown Detroit in the 80s was a sad place to live and work -- as I did then. [[I liked it, but it was pathetic.)

**mwilbert** · February-07-15, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

The City of Chicago, for example, in the late 1980s still held 1/2 of the jobs in the Chicagoland region. Detroit by comparison fell to about 10,000 downtown jobs in a region of 4m. Sure, apples to oranges... but I think my point is clear. We would have been happy to have done as well as Chicago. We didn't. Downtown Detroit in the 80s was a sad place to live and work -- as I did then. [[I liked it, but it was pathetic.)

I don't disagree with this comparison in general, but do you have a source for the idea that employment in downtown Detroit fell to 10,000 jobs? I'm pretty sure that is impossible. I would think the number was closer to 50,000, and it has nearly doubled now. But it hasn't risen by a factor of ten.

**iheartthed** · February-07-15, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I don't disagree with this comparison in general, but do you have a source for the idea that employment in downtown Detroit fell to 10,000 jobs? I'm pretty sure that is impossible. I would think the number was closer to 50,000, and it has nearly doubled now. But it hasn't risen by a factor of ten.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe working in the private sector there were only 10,000 workers [[even that's very hard to believe), but the city of Detroit alone must've had nearly 10,000 workers downtown during that time period.