JoAnn Watson says Obama should bail out Detroit

[Bham1982]

How can the U.S government justify giving 3.5 billion dollars in foreign aid every year to Israel and at the same time let a once great American city fall to the ground?

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and a strategic military and economic ally.

Detroit does receive massive federal assistance. Yes, it could always receive more, but it's a huge net recipient of federal largesse.

[downtownguy]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East...

That will be news to the citizens of Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Iraq.

[Bham1982]

That will be news to the citizens of Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Iraq.

International observers wouldn't label those countries as democracies. I understand that other Mideast countries have the democracy label. In any case, none of those countries are strategic economic and political allies.

And those countries don't exactly support your argument. Egypt receives almost as much U.S. aid as Israel, and Iraq receives a hell of a lot more. Turkey also receives a ton of aid.

[JVB]

International observers wouldn't label those countries as democracies. I understand that other Mideast countries have the democracy label. In any case, none of those countries are strategic economic and political allies.

Turkey is a HUGE political ally, and nobody would argue they do not have a democratic government.

[Bham1982]

Turkey is a HUGE political ally, and nobody would argue they do not have a democratic government.

No, and no.

Turkey isn't a comparable ally to Israel and few would seriously argue they are a true democracy.

Per the annual Freedom Index released by Freedom House [[the leading U.S. NGO on democracy issues, and founded by FDR)

Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is a Level 1 Democracy.

Turkey is rated Level 2 [[Partly Free)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_[[report)

[rb336]

No, and no.

Turkey isn't a comparable ally to Israel and few would seriously argue they are a true democracy.

Per the annual Freedom Index released by Freedom House [[the leading U.S. NGO on democracy issues, and founded by FDR)

Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is a Level 1 Democracy.

Turkey is rated Level 2 [[Partly Free)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_[[report)

Considering that Freedom House's Middle-East "expert" is a Bushie, and that their methodology isn't made clear, their little map means absolutely NOTHING. Ask a Christian Palestinian born and raised in Israel if Israel is a democracy. Israel has an apartheid system, and Turkey doesn't, making Turkey the more democratic society - by a long shot.

[Bham1982]

Considering that Freedom House's Middle-East "expert" is a Bushie, and that their methodology isn't made clear, their little map means absolutely NOTHING. Ask a Christian Palestinian born and raised in Israel if Israel is a democracy. Israel has an apartheid system, and Turkey doesn't, making Turkey the more democratic society - by a long shot.

Uh, are you serious? You're using Turkey has an example of a "more democratic society", especially in regards to ethnic minorities?

Turkey has killed over 200,000 Kurds. They have a true apartheid system. They regularly bomb sections of Northern Iraq, with the express purpose of killing Kurdish militants.

Almost all Jews and Christians have been driven out of Turkey. Very odd example to be given when criticitizing Israel's human rights record [[which is certainly far from ideal).

[mwilbert]

No, and no.

Turkey isn't a comparable ally to Israel and few would seriously argue they are a true democracy.

Per the annual Freedom Index released by Freedom House [[the leading U.S. NGO on democracy issues, and founded by FDR)

Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is a Level 1 Democracy.

Turkey is rated Level 2 [[Partly Free)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_[[report)

Freedom House is a crock.

I'm sorry, but Turkey is a democracy by any reasonable standard, and a NATO ally. Israel is certainly an ally, but a mostly useless one; the US is allied with Israel for cultural and historical reasons, not practical or military ones. Frankly that isn't all bad--it's arguably better than being allied with an odious regime like Bahrain's for practical and miltary reasons.

But to get back the point, Joanne Watson has jumped the gun on getting her medical marijuana prescription if she thinks anyone is going to give money to a city which she has a hand in running.

[Bham1982]

Freedom House is a crock.

Freedom House is nonpartisan, and generally respected by both Republicans and Democrats.

If, for whatever reason, you don't respect Freedom House, what about the Economist?

Their Freedom Index ranks Turkey 89th out of 167 countries, well behind Israel, all of Eastern Europe, Mali and Ghana. Turkey is barely rated ahead of Palestine. Turkey is labeled as "partially free" [[3 out of possible 7).

Turkey has no freedom of press. That alone distinguishes it from Israel. Even the most anti-Israel person would have to admit that Turkey's situation with Kurds is, at the least, roughly analagous to the Palestinian conflict.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

A few points I'd like to make about the absurdity known as the Councilwoman's demand:

1) The entitled, idiotic anger of her demand created such a backlash as to make it more difficult politically for the President to try to "help", if he were so inclined. Note, though, that there is no reason to believe he would be so inclined. No great urban policies came out of his first term.

2) The US Constitution clearly makes it Congress that can appropriate money. Much as he might want to, the President is not empowered to just give money away. He can spend what Congress allocates.

3) A loan to deal with your debt is similar to a shot of whiskey for your hangover.

4) I have said on this board for years that Detroit's money woes are only fixable in Detroit. Our decades of massive overspending must be curtailed. Modern, efficient, and honest business practices need to be put in place. True austerity. Many fewer programs, departments, employees, facilities, etc. For cities, just like individuals, no check is big enough to cover an eternity of irresponsibility.

[Honky Tonk]

A few points I'd like to make about the absurdity known as the Councilwoman's demand:

1) The entitled, idiotic anger of her demand created such a backlash as to make it more difficult politically for the President to try to "help", if he were so inclined. Note, though, that there is no reason to believe he would be so inclined. No great urban policies came out of his first term.

2) The US Constitution clearly makes it Congress that can appropriate money. Much as he might want to, the President is not empowered to just give money away. He can spend what Congress allocates.

3) A loan to deal with your debt is similar to a shot of whiskey for your hangover.

4) I have said on this board for years that Detroit's money woes are only fixable in Detroit. Our decades of massive overspending must be curtailed. Modern, efficient, and honest business practices need to be put in place. True austerity. Many fewer programs, departments, employees, facilities, etc. For cities, just like individuals, no check is big enough to cover an eternity of irresponsibility.

Your post is "right on the money", so to speak. Had President Obama been properly approached, with some kind of tangible plan for repayment, maybe, just maybe, he would/could have somehow intervened. To grandstand on camera, and call out the President of the United States, for payment for your vote, it really leaves him no choice but to say no. Detroit needs good, serious leadership if it's going to turn itself around, that is the problem here.

[firstandten]

A few points I'd like to make about the absurdity known as the Councilwoman's demand:

1) The entitled, idiotic anger of her demand created such a backlash as to make it more difficult politically for the President to try to "help", if he were so inclined. Note, though, that there is no reason to believe he would be so inclined. No great urban policies came out of his first term.

2) The US Constitution clearly makes it Congress that can appropriate money. Much as he might want to, the President is not empowered to just give money away. He can spend what Congress allocates.

3) A loan to deal with your debt is similar to a shot of whiskey for your hangover.

4) I have said on this board for years that Detroit's money woes are only fixable in Detroit. Our decades of massive overspending must be curtailed. Modern, efficient, and honest business practices need to be put in place. True austerity. Many fewer programs, departments, employees, facilities, etc. For cities, just like individuals, no check is big enough to cover an eternity of irresponsibility.

I think its pretty clear that Ms Watson doesn't understand what the President is about. Pres. Obama has said more than once that a "rising tide lifts all ships" in other words no massive bailouts for cities like Detroit which of course needs it but the Pres. understands that the entire economy needs to be fixed first. The economy being fixed will help lift Detroit and other big cities to a degree. Once that happens I'm sure Obama will be out of office and another president will have to deal with the dysfunction that is Detroit.

[michimoby]

International observers wouldn't label those countries as democracies. I understand that other Mideast countries have the democracy label. In any case, none of those countries are strategic economic and political allies.

And those countries don't exactly support your argument. Egypt receives almost as much U.S. aid as Israel, and Iraq receives a hell of a lot more. Turkey also receives a ton of aid.

Current United Nations employee here: I can assure you that Turkey and Lebanon are viewed by the international community as functioning democracies; Egypt and Iraq are transitional democracies.

On the whole, the former two are also incredibly strategic wrt regional stability, not just for the US but globally.

Israel, on the other hand, is viewed as a bit of a pest.

I digress, though...

[downtownguy]

And those countries don't exactly support your argument. Egypt receives almost as much U.S. aid as Israel, and Iraq receives a hell of a lot more. Turkey also receives a ton of aid.

My argument? I said nothing about aid.

[Bham1982]

My argument? I said nothing about aid.

Then what's your point? You don't like Jews or something?

What's the purpose of an Israel critique in the context of a thread about Detroit not receiving enough federal funding?

[downtownguy]

How can the U.S government justify giving 3.5 billion dollars in foreign aid every year to Israel and at the same time let a once great American city fall to the ground?

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and a strategic military and economic ally.

That will be news to the citizens of Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Iraq.

International observers wouldn't label those countries as democracies. I understand that other Mideast countries have the democracy label. In any case, none of those countries are strategic economic and political allies.

And those countries don't exactly support your argument. Egypt receives almost as much U.S. aid as Israel, and Iraq receives a hell of a lot more. Turkey also receives a ton of aid.

My argument? I said nothing about aid.

Then what's your point? You don't like Jews or something?

What's the purpose of an Israel critique in the context of a thread about Detroit not receiving enough federal funding?

Bham, before you start race-baiting, put your reading glasses on and go back and read the thread. You responded to a poster that brought up the huge amount of aid the US gives to Israel in the context of potential aid to bail out Detroit. I only responded to your assertion that Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East. Your response to me is offensive. I never attacked Jews, only your interpretation of democracy.