What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[Dan_the_man]

Illitch can up and move the team to the Palace. It can't be any worse than Joe Louis. I can't believe one building is going to hold this project up. Nobody else is going to develop that building any time soon.

If Illitch was willing to sell, I bet it would get redeveloped, even if the arena weren't going to be there. It's close enough to downtown and Midtown that development would reach there in a few years anyways. There aren't many big buildings left. This one would get fixed.

[emu steve]

If Illitch was willing to sell, I bet it would get redeveloped, even if the arena weren't going to be there. It's close enough to downtown and Midtown that development would reach there in a few years anyways. There aren't many big buildings left. This one would get fixed.

Wow, do I disagree with you.

The old sports-facilities-doesn't-cause-development [[i.e., they'd happen anyways, but would any of us still be alive????).

That area was dead, dead, dead.

East of Woodward was dead, dead, dead.

All of a sudden west of Woodward is alive and folks fighting over what will or will not go where.

And all of a sudden EAST of Woodward is alive and I read plans for multiple nice housing projects, maybe a hotel [[across from FF), renovated Brewster Wheeler, etc.

Where was all of this THREE years ago? Why now? Why not then?

Might it not just be the new arena and M-1 which has defined the area [[the arena helps define the 'entertainment' [[and commercial) part of the area West of Woodward, and East of Woodward seems to be defined as a coming residential area.

[Gistok]

Wow, do I disagree with you.

The old sports-facilities-doesn't-cause-development [[i.e., they'd happen anyways, but would any of us still be alive????).

That area was dead, dead, dead.

East of Woodward was dead, dead, dead.

All of a sudden west of Woodward is alive and folks fighting over what will or will not go where.

And all of a sudden EAST of Woodward is alive and I read plans for multiple nice housing projects, maybe a hotel [[across from FF), renovated Brewster Wheeler, etc.

Where was all of this THREE years ago? Why now? Why not then?

Might it not just be the new arena and M-1 which has defined the area [[the arena helps define the 'entertainment' [[and commercial) part of the area West of Woodward, and East of Woodward seems to be defined as a coming residential area.

Hey emu_steve... who's fighting over this?

http://detroitfunk.com/fine-arts-building-2009/

The surviving Fine Arts facade has sat there like that for 6 years....

Meanwhile the Broderick across the street is back online, the Whitney is online... but the Fine Arts Facade, the UA complex, the Blenheim Apartments and the Detroit Life Buildings are all moldering away unrestored.

The GAR Building was on their list, but the Ilitch's procrastinated and it went back to the city and now is being lovingly restored by other who seem to give a rats ass about fixing old buildings.

Who wants to see the Eddystone as another building on the Ilitch Holding's "to do" list?? Isn't that list getting a bit long even for you?

[Buttons]

If Illitch was willing to sell, I bet it would get redeveloped, even if the arena weren't going to be there. It's close enough to downtown and Midtown that development would reach there in a few years anyways. There aren't many big buildings left. This one would get fixed.

The Park Avenue hotel is isolated and disconnected from Midtown and Downtown. If the arena project goes as planned, it seems like a great way to bridge the gap between the two neighborhoods. On its own, I just don't see anyone wanting to renovate the Park in such a desolate area. I do think Illitch has leverage because the Palace is a fine building. I'm sure he would also win in the court of public opinion and can make it look like council forced him out of Detroit. For the record, I agree with council in making sure there are guarantees. I don't think he should be forced to renovate both the Eddystone and Park.

[masterblaster]

[QUOTE=Buttons;476239]The Park Avenue hotel is isolated and disconnected from Midtown and Downtown.[QUOTE]

The Park Avenue hotel is in the Midtown neighborhood. The Masonic Temple, Cass Park, the former Kresge Headquarters, Cass Tech, and the Temple Bar are all within 2 blocks of these hotels. Are all of those buildings disconnected from Midtown? No they are right smack in it.

Also, the area looks so bad and desolate because Ilitch acquired and has held on to so many of the structures and vacant property in that area for many years in his quest to acquire land to get another hockey arena built. That is why the area of downtown northwest of Grand Circus Park is so desolate and undeveloped as well.

[Buttons]

[QUOTE=masterblaster;476243][QUOTE=Buttons;476239]The Park Avenue hotel is isolated and disconnected from Midtown and Downtown.

The Park Avenue hotel is in the Midtown neighborhood. The Masonic Temple, Cass Park, the former Kresge Headquarters, Cass Tech, and the Temple Bar are all within 2 blocks of these hotels. Are all of those buildings disconnected from Midtown? No they are right smack in it.

Also, the area looks so bad and desolate because Ilitch acquired and has held on to so many of the structures and vacant property in that area for many years in his quest to acquire land to get another hockey arena built. That is why the area of downtown northwest of Grand Circus Park is so desolate and undeveloped as well.

I consider Midtown as usually MLK north but I will concede that the Cass Corridor is Midtown. I don't see the Temple bar as being enough to draw in developers. We then have a high school, a run down park, a theater on the brink of closer, and a former corporate headquarters. There's a lot of the Cass Corridor that isn't owned by Illitch that hasn't been developed. Illitch also bought some of this land recently which sat vacant for awhile

[gvidas]

From the "the ghost of Lee Harvey Oswold is not coming back to fire an RPG from the Park Ave Hotel" dept, Bruce Schneier on the uselessness of metal detectors at MLB stadiums:

In reality, this is CYA security, and it's pervasive in post-9/11 America. It no longer matters if a security measure makes sense, if it's cost-effective or if it mitigates any actual threats. All that matters is that you took the threat seriously, so if something happens you won't be blamed for inaction. It's security, all right -- security for the careers of those in charge.

I'm not saying that these officials care only about their jobs and not at all about preventing terrorism, only that their priorities are skewed. They imagine vague threats, and come up with correspondingly vague security measures intended to address them. They experience none of the costs. They're not the ones who have to deal with the long lines and confusion at the gates. They're not the ones who have to arrive early to avoid the messes the new policies have caused around the league. And if fans spend more money at the concession stands because they've arrived an hour early and have had the food and drinks they tried to bring along confiscated, so much the better, from the team owners' point of view.

I can hear the objections to this as I write. You don't know these measures won't be effective! What if something happens? Don't we have to do everything possible to protect ourselves against terrorism?
That's worst-case thinking, and it's dangerous. It leads to bad decisions, bad design and bad security. A better approach is to realistically assess the threats, judge security measures on their effectiveness and take their costs into account. And the result of that calm, rational look will be the realization that there will always be places where we pack ourselves densely together, and that we should spend less time trying to secure those places and more time finding terrorist plots before they can be carried out.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...detectors.html