New Arena on the Horizon??

[jerrytimes]

The Ilitches don't have the money for an arena? Is that a joke or are you serious?

[dnvn522]

And we've been speculating about a new arena behind the Fox since at least '05. I've still got a crap load of aerial photos on my computer with a superimposed JLA and Palace on different plots of land.

[crawford]

The Ilitches don't have the money for an arena? Is that a joke or are you serious?

I'm serious. You think they just have a half-billion sitting around, waiting to burn?

They're wealthy but not THAT wealthy.

And people do not become successful like they have by doing stupid things like building a money-pit half-billion dollar arena, when they can get the public to pay for it in better times.

[Retroit]

crawford, don't Comerica Park and Ford Field disprove your point? Did the Ilitches have a "half-billion sitting around" for Comerica Park, or Bill Ford for Ford Field? Aren't they both "single-use arenas"?

[softailrider]

crawford, don't Comerica Park and Ford Field disprove your point? Did the Ilitches have a "half-billion sitting around" for Comerica Park, or Bill Ford for Ford Field? Aren't they both "single-use arenas"?

Please don't put Mike Illich and and William Clay Ford in the same monetary league. While Illich is a self made man and Ford inherited his money, Ford could buy and sell him in an instant.

[crawford]

crawford, don't Comerica Park and Ford Field disprove your point? Did the Ilitches have a "half-billion sitting around" for Comerica Park, or Bill Ford for Ford Field? Aren't they both "single-use arenas"?

No, they both prove my point.

Neither Comerica nor Ford Field is an arena. They are a baseball park and a football stadium, both of which rely on totally different economic assumptions.

Baseball parks are easier to finance because they have 81 guaranteed dates, and are cheaper to build than covered sports arenas.

Football stadia are NOT primarily financed by the owners; they are financed by the NFL through revenue sharing. There is no revenue sharing in the NBA or NHL, and neither league gives even a penny to new arenas.

Also, both Comerica and Ford Field received a ton of state money. A new Wings arena would require far more state money than either of these venues.

So the question is whether or not you think the state would be willing to give the Illitches a cool $200 million or so to build a new arena. Given the current economic climate, my guess would be no.

[Retroit]

Thank you, that was very informative. PQZ also.

[esp1986]

No, they both prove my point.

Neither Comerica nor Ford Field is an arena. They are a baseball park and a football stadium, both of which rely on totally different economic assumptions.

Baseball parks are easier to finance because they have 81 guaranteed dates, and are cheaper to build than covered sports arenas.

Football stadia are NOT primarily financed by the owners; they are financed by the NFL through revenue sharing. There is no revenue sharing in the NBA or NHL, and neither league gives even a penny to new arenas.

What no one seems to remember, back in about 1992, Mike Ilitch wanted to pay $300 million out of HIS pocket to build a new stadium for the Tigers, but was unable to jump through the numerous hoops that the city laid out for him. Discouraged, he threatened to leave town, as a political ploy of course, and then not only did he get his way, but he also got a good portion of the stadium paid for through public funds.

If he decides to, Ilitch can build this arena out of pocket. Given the current economic climate, it does seem unlikely, but if things start to show signs of turning around, don't be suprised if they make an announcement sooner rather than later to take advantace of significantly discounted construction costs while they can.

[crawford]

What no one seems to remember, back in about 1992, Mike Ilitch wanted to pay $300 million out of HIS pocket to build a new stadium for the Tigers, but was unable to jump through the numerous hoops that the city laid out for him.

Please source this "guarantee".

And, even if true, he ended up taking over 100 million in taxpayer funding, so it supports my point. It would require at least 200 million in public funding nowadays. You think that has a possibility in these trying times?

200 million in taxpayer dollars to replace one money-losing arena with another? There is no impact on downtown one way or the other.

If he decides to, Ilitch can build this arena out of pocket.

You don't know this.

Unless you do his books, you don't know his cash liquidity. His net worth does not really shed light on his liquidity.

And even if he could do it, it doesn't mean he will.

Maybe Bill Gates could build a bullet train from NYC to LA. Doesn't mean he's going to do it.

[SCS100]

There is no revenue sharing in the NBA or NHL, and neither league gives even a penny to new arenas.

Wrong, the NHL has revenue sharing. It's called giving the money to Phoenix and the southern markets to survive. Don't you follow the NHL if you claim to know how it operates? That was a major point of the 2004/2005 lockout. It's supposed to stabilize financially unstable teams.

[buildingsofdetroit]

"I find it hard to believe that the facade alone of the Fine Arts Building would be preserved unless there was likely to be some sort of development in the very near future."

The FA facade has nothing to do with that. The historic commission green-lighted its razing only IF the facade was saved. Ilitch MUST have a plan for the cleared Adams/Fine Arts site, though. Why would he demo those now if he didn't? Just because the state money was available? [[Remember, your tax dollars paid to raze the Chin Tiki, the old parking garage, FA, Adams Theatre and the two buildings on Columbia between G.River and Cass.)
As for the west Foxtown thing, I don't see it, quite frankly. You'd have to shut down way too many roads, there aren't easy-access freeway offramps. The footprint just seems too small. He bought the vacant Eddystone and Park Ave. hotels north of 75. Now why would he do that? Just a guess, but that stretch of the Corridor needs gentrification. I'd bet the new arena would go there, especially with Olympia operating the Masonic now.

[EastSider]

As for the west Foxtown thing, I don't see it, quite frankly. You'd have to shut down way too many roads, there aren't easy-access freeway offramps. The footprint just seems too small. He bought the vacant Eddystone and Park Ave. hotels north of 75. Now why would he do that? Just a guess, but that stretch of the Corridor needs gentrification. I'd bet the new arena would go there, especially with Olympia operating the Masonic now.

Would traffic downtown really miss W. Montcalm, Elizabeth or Columbia. Even Clifford north of Adams could be dealt with. It's just a drunken path to Cass anyhow.

The freeway access? There is no substantial difference in freeway access between a supposed Foxtown arena site and Comerica Park/Ford Field. Even seems able to get to the existing spots just fine on event days, so why would everyone grow stupid just because they have to go west of Woodward?

[casscorridor]

fuck illitch.

fuck a new arena.

fuck the next BIG DEVELOPMENT downtown that won't do one shred of good for the neighborhoods

It'll just empty out Red Wings fan's from people mover and Greektown... currently hot spots whenever there is a Wings game. It'll also mean more superblocks seperating Downtown from surrounding neighborhoods. Goodbye Cass Ave... it'll probably be cut up too. We have Comerica Park and Ford Field and freeways blocking off Brush Park [[redevelopment there basically stalled). We have MGM and freeways blocking off Corktown. Freeways and suburban appartments blocking off near eastside neighborhoods. The Ren Cen blocking off rivertown. and Cobo and the Joe and freeways blocking off the west riverfront.

We have to stop looking for "the next big thing" and start thinking how we can revitalize each neighborhood, block by block. a new stadium downtown won't do shit, to be frank.