The elephant in the room: CRIME

**313WX** · May-22-15, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

If you don't have street smarts, or don't feel like dealing with it, don't move back.

Well, if you live in government-subsized WSU's police jurisdiction, things now aren't as bad.

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Well, if you live in government-subsized WSU's police jurisdiction, things now aren't as bad.

Best policing taxpayer money can buy.

**mwilbert** · May-22-15, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Best policing taxpayer money can buy.

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

**professorscott** · May-22-15, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

Not quite all. Some neighborhoods pay for private policing. The U of D Mercy campus security are deputized and patrol the neighborhoods adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. If a neighborhood wants to get together and supplement what the City can do, which in the realm of crime prevention and response is admittedly Godawful, it can.

**Pontiac6000** · May-22-15, 04:12 PM

Its comforting to know that in New Center and surrounding area has Henry Ford Hospital police and WSU police to supplement DPD. Just yesterday, I saw DPD and others escorting a lottery winner from Cadillac Place. You should have seen the people scatter while I walked on by...

**mwilbert** · May-22-15, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Not quite all. Some neighborhoods pay for private policing. The U of D Mercy campus security are deputized and patrol the neighborhoods adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. If a neighborhood wants to get together and supplement what the City can do, which in the realm of crime prevention and response is admittedly Godawful, it can.

While it is true that only 99% of policing is taxpayer financed. I don't really see that it relevant in this context. And while a neighborhood can have a security patrol, I've never seen a non-institutional neighborhood that had an actual police force. Maybe they do in some jurisdictions, but I've never seen it.

And as long as we are picking nits, I'm not sure you are really right about the specific example of UDM police and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Here's where they have authority at the McNichols campus:

"These powers are limited to the property of the geographical area bounded on the north by McNichols from Stoepel to Fairfield; on the east by Fairfield from McNichols to Puritan; on the south by Puritan from Fairfield to Livernois; north on Livernois to Florence, west to Stoepel; on the west by Stoepel from Florence to McNichols."

That includes a little bit of space outside the campus proper, but very little. I'm actually kind of curious why it includes those blocks between Livernois and Stoepel. I can't think of much university-related stuff over there.

**Detroitnerd** · May-22-15, 04:35 PM

Some of it is about perceptions. There is less crime in some Detroit neighborhoods than there is in some suburban neighborhoods. But when the news screams every night about crime in Detroit, they effectively become some people's realities.

Some of it is about being streetwise. You don't go into any big American city and simply leave a laptop on the front seat. You don't stop and see what that guy in the oversized white T-shirt is waving at you about by the abandoned house.

Some of it is about race. There are white folks who might feel threatened by a person simply because they're black.

But I do think it's often a bit of race coding, that whole dog-whistle thing. At face value, "I want to live in a community with good schools, stable home values, and low crime," is something everybody wants. But it often means something else.

Carry on ...

**corktownyuppie** · May-23-15, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Some of it is about perceptions. There is less crime in some Detroit neighborhoods than there is in some suburban neighborhoods. But when the news screams every night about crime in Detroit, they effectively become some people's realities.

Some of it is about being streetwise. You don't go into any big American city and simply leave a laptop on the front seat. You don't stop and see what that guy in the oversized white T-shirt is waving at you about by the abandoned house.

Some of it is about race. There are white folks who might feel threatened by a person simply because they're black.

But I do think it's often a bit of race coding, that whole dog-whistle thing. At face value, "I want to live in a community with good schools, stable home values, and low crime," is something everybody wants. But it often means something else.

Carry on ...

This may be the most intelligent way I've ever seen to describe crime in Detroit.

It is absolutely true that there are neighborhoods in Detroit where there is less crime than in many of the suburbs. Detroit is the only city in Michigan where a crime can happen 12 miles away from you, and you're still associated with it.

It is said sometimes that there are two Detroits. One is a reasonably safe city where you have to be a little bit careful. The other is Mogadishu. It's absolutely true. Unfortunately, if there were only one Detroit, it wouldn't be the reasonably safe city now...it would be Mogadishu.

In the safe Detroit, a thief grabs a laptop off from someone's table at Starbucks, the police arrive within 30 seconds, then they go catch the thief and return the laptop within 5 minutes. My friend was in town from Ann Arbor in 2013 when he witnessed this. Note that we were in the middle of bankruptcy at this time, as well. In Mogadishu Detroit, someone arrives home to a burglarized home, and calls the police. The police ask if the burglar is still on the premises, when the residents answers, "no", the police say, "Ok, we'll send someone out. It might be 2-3 hours, though, we're really backed up."

The goal now is to keep growing the safe Detroit and shrinking Mogadishu. It will take a lot of time...years...but all we can do is keep making progress.

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-15, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Taxpayer money pays for all our policing. There is just some extra spending around WSU. It's almost as if you can deal with some problems by spending money, but I know that's just crazy talk.

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

**erikd** · May-22-15, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

What is the problem with WSUPD patrolling the campus and surrounding area?

WSU has buildings all over the Cass Corridor, Medical Center, and other areas in Midtown, in addition to a significant student population living in non-university-owned housing in these areas. It is quite common for state universities to patrol areas on and around their campuses.

WSUPD isn't diverting any funding away from the DPD, or the city of Detroit, and the off-campus police support provided by the WSUPD helps to free up DPD patrol resources to be redeployed into other areas of the city.

There are a number of posts on this thread that seem to suggest that the WSU policing around campus somehow isn't fair, or is some kind of misuse of tax dollars, but I fail to see the reasoning behind this sentiment.

**Honky Tonk** · May-23-15, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by erikd

What is the problem with WSUPD patrolling the campus and surrounding area?

WSU has buildings all over the Cass Corridor, Medical Center, and other areas in Midtown, in addition to a significant student population living in non-university-owned housing in these areas. It is quite common for state universities to patrol areas on and around their campuses.

WSUPD isn't diverting any funding away from the DPD, or the city of Detroit, and the off-campus police support provided by the WSUPD helps to free up DPD patrol resources to be redeployed into other areas of the city.

There are a number of posts on this thread that seem to suggest that the WSU policing around campus somehow isn't fair, or is some kind of misuse of tax dollars, but I fail to see the reasoning behind this sentiment.

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it. Why are you even bringing up WSU "free policing", if it is indeed "free"? If Midtown residents want to work out a deal to use WSU police, more power to them. The conversation seems to be about crime in the rest of the City and not just in the Utopian part. In fact, I don't see where anyone even suggested taxpayer funds are being diverted to WSU police. DPD IS being used as security guards @ sporting events and even as crossing guards in Midtown while crime is still out of control in other parts of the City where other Detroiters live, without subsidies. It gets a little old reading about how wonderful life is in efin' Midtown.

**313WX** · May-23-15, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it.

Bingo. You got it.

And as far as the comment about WSUPD being government-subsizied, it benefits from streams of revenue that the DPD doesn't [[Stafford Loans, Scholarships, Pell Grants, etc.), which is part of the reason it's able to operate so efficiently. And quite frankly, without the WSUPD [[or if its additional funding sources were cut), Midtown would be in the same predicament as the rest of the city.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-25-15, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it. Why are you even bringing up WSU "free policing", if it is indeed "free"? If Midtown residents want to work out a deal to use WSU police, more power to them. The conversation seems to be about crime in the rest of the City and not just in the Utopian part. In fact, I don't see where anyone even suggested taxpayer funds are being diverted to WSU police. DPD IS being used as security guards @ sporting events and even as crossing guards in Midtown while crime is still out of control in other parts of the City where other Detroiters live, without subsidies. It gets a little old reading about how wonderful life is in efin' Midtown.

It is appropriate for some police to be stationed at major public assemblies. Only police can act on certain kinds of crime -- and let's not forget the Boston Marathon. Its quite appropriate to police the city and major events.

**erikd** · May-28-15, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

The problem is you don't seem to be getting it. Why are you even bringing up WSU "free policing", if it is indeed "free"? If Midtown residents want to work out a deal to use WSU police, more power to them. The conversation seems to be about crime in the rest of the City and not just in the Utopian part. In fact, I don't see where anyone even suggested taxpayer funds are being diverted to WSU police. DPD IS being used as security guards @ sporting events and even as crossing guards in Midtown while crime is still out of control in other parts of the City where other Detroiters live, without subsidies. It gets a little old reading about how wonderful life is in efin' Midtown.

I'm still trying to understand your point. It seems that you find it unfair that more money being spent on policing the area around the WSU campus, via the funding for the WSUPD from the university. It is true that the WSUPD, like many other universities across the country, provides additional patrols on and around the campus, but I fail to see why that is a problem. Should universities be banned from policing their campuses and surrounding areas? Should universities with police patrols have their state funding cut? Should students who attend such universities be disqualified for student loans? If it is a problem, then what should be done about it?

I understand the frustration of inadequate police patrols and response in the city. We don't have university police in my east side neighborhood either, but I'm not bitter about my fellow Detroiters who do get that benefit in the area around WSU.

**mwilbert** · May-23-15, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It's only crazy talk when it's being spent more in one area then another.

Apparently my point was not clear. People regularly talk [[on this forum and everywhere else) about how government spending money doesn't solve problems. Here we have a governmental entity spending money on security, and, remarkably, security in the area where they are spending the money is increased.

Crazy.

**Honky Tonk** · May-23-15, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Apparently my point was not clear. People regularly talk [[on this forum and everywhere else) about how government spending money doesn't solve problems. Here we have a governmental entity spending money on security, and, remarkably, security in the area where they are spending the money is increased.

Crazy.

Just what problem is solve? Subsidies and tax breaks to increase a non-tax paying population and business community, @ the expense of the rest of the tax paying populace? All you done is created discontent and alienation. Your right about one thing, that is crazy.

**mwilbert** · May-23-15, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Just what problem is solve? Subsidies and tax breaks to increase a non-tax paying population and business community, @ the expense of the rest of the tax paying populace? All you done is created discontent and alienation. Your right about one thing, that is crazy.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the relationship between your comments and mine, so I'm going to stop now.