Pay cuts, school closures, steeper student losses on way, DPS plan shows

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

[Wesley Mouch]

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

[Dan Wesson]

what's the matter? That pandering, flimflam, huckstering slogan ain't working no more?

It's for the kid's...


There was a time when I believed.

[maverick1]

More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

[Johnnny5]

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

[Lowell]

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

[professorscott]

I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

[Wesley Mouch]

You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

I've seen little evidence that charters did anything to harm public education. They took away students, and they took away money. Fair enough. DPS was not educating them, to be sure. And some Charters do an excellent job, and others not so much.

But if you don't think the mere existence of Charters has improve public education, then you probably think DPS was doing just fine and only needed more money.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

The idea that Charters are destroying education in America is pure fantasy. Monopoly public education in urban cities were doing that job well-enough before Charters.

[Zacha341]

Another related factor in this is the quasi-charter 'contraption' known as EAA [[Educational Achievement Authority) schools where DPS low performing were so converted. Schools our millages paid for [[Think the rebuilt Mumford HS, etc.)

What's up with that? How are they preforming academically? How's the chancellorship [[Covington) and what not going? Funding sources? Outcomes?

I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

[313WX]

Another related factor in this is the quasi-charter 'contraption' known as EAA [[Educational Achievement Authority) schools where DPS low performing were so converted. Schools our millages paid for [[Think the rebuilt Mumford HS, etc.)

What's up with that? How are they preforming academically? How's the chancellorship [[Covington) and what not going? Funding sources? Outcomes?

To answer your question, it's not "going" nor "performing."

The schools suffer from the same cultural problems that they did under DPS' control [[the administrators of the EAA were DPS administrators in fact). Remember that Pershing, where the teacher beat the students with a broom stick for fighting in the classroom, is an EAA school.

The biggest difference is the teachers aren't unionized, but rather they're at-will, lowly-paid Teach for America contractors.

[Zacha341]

Yep. I was using colloquial conversational terms specifically for effect -- asking rhetorically actually. I agree with you, much of the problem continues per the cultural underlying problem of values and parenting. In this case [[EAA) add to it an even faster revolving door of teachers. Another PRE-Formed system from the start. Follow the money I say.

To answer your question, it's not "going" nor "performing."

The schools suffer from the same cultural problems that they did under DPS' control [[the administrators of the EAA were DPS administrators in fact). Remember that Pershing, where the teacher beat the students with a broom stick for fighting in the classroom, is an EAA school.

The biggest difference is the teachers aren't unionized, but rather they're at-will, lowly-paid Teach for America contractors.

[Zacha341]

Additionally this goes back to and thru the Granholm administration et al.

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?