Detroit Update: On the Pistons Moving to Little Caesars Arena, and New Soccer Stadium

**stasu1213** · October-29-16, 01:30 PM

We must remember before we get our hopes up too high. It's not official and the only reason the Gores is considering moving the Pistons downtown is from all of the pressure by the people and the NBA. He may opt out of the deal if he can. Gilbert or Illitch may have to end up buying the team from him and move the team downtown themselves. Gores never did have a heart to move the team downtown and typical of Detroit to not get the most important things in the city that would be a win win for the city. Mass Transit, jobs, a major retail store downtown or along Jefferson, a good national chain grocery store downtown, and the Pistons

**Gistok** · October-29-16, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

We must remember before we get our hopes up too high. It's not official and the only reason the Gores is considering moving the Pistons downtown is from all of the pressure by the people and the NBA. He may opt out of the deal if he can. Gilbert or Illitch may have to end up buying the team from him and move the team downtown themselves. Gores never did have a heart to move the team downtown and typical of Detroit to not get the most important things in the city that would be a win win for the city. Mass Transit, jobs, a major retail store downtown or along Jefferson, a good national chain grocery store downtown, and the Pistons

I have to disagree with you on your assessment. Gores is a billionaire... no one is holding a gun to his head... he's doing what he wants... and only what he wants. It just so happens that IF a move to the new arena is going to happen... then that decision needs to come so that the Pistons infrastructure [[locker rooms, etc) can be incorporated now into the design.

If Gores wasn't all that interested in the team, then he wouldn't have bid on it. I do honestly believe that he WANTS to move downtown... and also WANTS to be a partner with Gilbert in a potential MLS stadium on the Fail Jail site. If he didn't have the heart to move the team downtown... he wouldn't be this far along in the discussions, including finding a site for a practice facility.

In this case, the 800 lb. gorilla happens to be the Ilitch's.

**stasu1213** · October-30-16, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I have to disagree with you on your assessment. Gores is a billionaire... no one is holding a gun to his head... he's doing what he wants... and only what he wants. It just so happens that IF a move to the new arena is going to happen... then that decision needs to come so that the Pistons infrastructure [[locker rooms, etc) can be incorporated now into the design.

If Gores wasn't all that interested in the team, then he wouldn't have bid on it. I do honestly believe that he WANTS to move downtown... and also WANTS to be a partner with Gilbert in a potential MLS stadium on the Fail Jail site. If he didn't have the heart to move the team downtown... he wouldn't be this far along in the discussions, including finding a site for a practice facility.

In this case, the 800 lb. gorilla happens to be the Ilitch's.

Detroit had always had an 800lb gorilla in the room blocking or slowing developments. Detroit has a history of prolonging opening of smaller venues and retail due to red tapes, pay to play, corruption, and total incompetence in city government and economic growth corporation. I always say I will believe it when I see it. The announcement of the Pistons were suppose to had been Thursday but no official word yet. Illitch may become stubborn in his old ways

**401don** · October-30-16, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Detroit had always had an 800lb gorilla in the room blocking or slowing developments. Detroit has a history of prolonging opening of smaller venues and retail due to red tapes, pay to play, corruption, and total incompetence in city government and economic growth corporation. I always say I will believe it when I see it. The announcement of the Pistons were suppose to had been Thursday but no official word yet. Illitch may become stubborn in his old ways

If everything - arena, parking, concert revenue etc. is split down the middle this is still a huge cash cow for Ilitch. No chance he turns this down.

**ABetterDetroit** · October-30-16, 11:12 AM

If this deal gets hammered out 2 things happen:

First one is the new arena gets double the guaranteed event nights which is great news for the job market in the service industry in the downtown area.

Second is it appears that Ilitch will get a very big check from Gores assuming that Gores gets his partnership in the new arena and is not just a tenant. This point leeds to the next question. Will Ilitch actually reinvest this check for anything other than more parking for his stadiums? So far there has been no proof that he has interest to venture into housing or commercial real estate other than his renderings. Ilitch will have reached the point of put up or shut up hopefully.

**stasu1213** · October-30-16, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

If this deal gets hammered out 2 things happen:

First one is the new arena gets double the guaranteed event nights which is great news for the job market in the service industry in the downtown area.

Second is it appears that Ilitch will get a very big check from Gores assuming that Gores gets his partnership in the new arena and is not just a tenant. This point leeds to the next question. Will Ilitch actually reinvest this check for anything other than more parking for his stadiums? So far there has been no proof that he has interest to venture into housing or commercial real estate other than his renderings. Ilitch will have reached the point of put up or shut up hopefully.

It will still be a win for Gores even if he is in the arena temporarily until the Pistons have their own arena. One of the biggest negotiation item is whether Gores would just be a tenant or a partner. Did Davidson partnered with Ford when the Pistons played in the Pontiac Silverdome or were they partners in ownership?. I would say that Gores would want to build his own stadium in downtown Detroit. Eventually staying at the Palace when all of the money, action, and excitement are in Detroit would not be in Gores best interest

**401don** · October-30-16, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

It will still be a win for Gores even if he is in the arena temporarily until the Pistons have their own arena. One of the biggest negotiation item is whether Gores would just be a tenant or a partner. Did Davidson partnered with Ford when the Pistons played in the Pontiac Silverdome or were they partners in ownership?. I would say that Gores would want to build his own stadium in downtown Detroit. Eventually staying at the Palace when all of the money, action, and excitement are in Detroit would not be in Gores best interest

Gores will not want his own arena. Picture a pie store with 2 owners that contains the NHL, NBA, concerts & all the other events downtown. The pie generates 100 million of revenue per year. You can open a 2nd store and split the pie in half but you can't make it any bigger. It cost 40 million each yr. to sell the pie. The 2nd store costs almost the same so your profits just dropped from 60 million to 10 million. Why operate your own store when you can have 30 million profits each?

**Gistok** · October-30-16, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

It will still be a win for Gores even if he is in the arena temporarily until the Pistons have their own arena.

Most cities that have both NBA and NHL teams share the same Arena. In fact LA's Staples Center has 2 NBA teams [[Lakers and Clippers) and 1 NHL team [[Kings).

So even with the Red Wings and Pistons sharing the same arena and all the combined concerts by Olympia and Palace Entertainments... the arena will still be empty at least half the year. Some concerts need "buildup" and "take down" time that cannot happen overnight.

Besides there would be no place to build another arena. The west Foxtown property holdouts already said NO.

So there is ZERO likelihood of a separate Arena for the Pistons.... sharing the same arena over an extended period is likely the only card on the table.

**Dbest** · October-31-16, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Most cities that have both NBA and NHL teams share the same Arena. In fact LA's Staples Center has 2 NBA teams [[Lakers and Clippers) and 1 NHL team [[Kings).

So even with the Red Wings and Pistons sharing the same arena and all the combined concerts by Olympia and Palace Entertainments... the arena will still be empty at least half the year. Some concerts need "buildup" and "take down" time that cannot happen overnight.

Besides there would be no place to build another arena. The west Foxtown property holdouts already said NO.

So there is ZERO likelihood of a separate Arena for the Pistons.... sharing the same arena over an extended period is likely the only card on the table.

Zero? Keep in mind that Gores is loaded and has some venture capitalist friends in Cali who could probably invest in any project they would like.

This is all about how long Gores will agree to stay in LC arena and not build his own.

Think about it from the Illitches standpoint, if Gores signs only a 5 year deal with no clause against constructing his own facility then what stops him and his team from building a BETTER arena somewhere else?

Sooner or later someone is going to try and make a splash on a big project somewhere else besides greater downtown.

Heres a hypothetical:

Gores partners with Magic Johnson and others to redevelop the old fairgrounds into a entertainment hub, including a Pistons arena.

Remember, they're friends. He's also a known commodity in Silicone Valley. The guy is more of a "mover and shaker" as evidence by the quick move out of AH...

**vetalalumni** · October-30-16, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

We must remember before we get our hopes up too high. It's not official and the only reason the Gores is considering moving the Pistons downtown is from all of the pressure by the people and the NBA. He may opt out of the deal if he can. Gilbert or Illitch may have to end up buying the team from him and move the team downtown themselves. Gores never did have a heart to move the team downtown and typical of Detroit to not get the most important things in the city that would be a win win for the city. Mass Transit, jobs, a major retail store downtown or along Jefferson, a good national chain grocery store downtown, and the Pistons

Retail and grocery anchors would give depth. Additional cultural and family venues as well.

**313WX** · October-30-16, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

We must remember before we get our hopes up too high. It's not official and the only reason the Gores is considering moving the Pistons downtown is from all of the pressure by the people and the NBA. He may opt out of the deal if he can. Gilbert or Illitch may have to end up buying the team from him and move the team downtown themselves. Gores never did have a heart to move the team downtown and typical of Detroit to not get the most important things in the city that would be a win win for the city. Mass Transit, jobs, a major retail store downtown or along Jefferson, a good national chain grocery store downtown, and the Pistons

I will say that downtown would have truly turned the corner when it can attract a basic grocery store like Kroger.

**stasu1213** · October-30-16, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I will say that downtown would have truly turned the corner when it can attract a basic grocery store like Kroger.

Yes it would. Why would I pay high rent for an area that is a food desert. I might as well live in nearby Grosse Pointe and enjoy the basic amenities that it has for it's residents. Papa Joes was suppose to had opened downtown but that plan was cancelled. The only stores nearby are stores that I would not consider good independent stores for some of the products are outdated and the areas are questionable.

**drjeff** · October-31-16, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I will say that downtown would have truly turned the corner when it can attract a basic grocery store like Kroger.

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

**dtowncitylover** · October-31-16, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

There's a Jewel-Osco, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and Mariano's all in downtown Chicago.

**gumby** · October-31-16, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

Here is one in Cleveland http://constantinosmarket.com/

Pittsburgh https://www.marketstreetgrocery.com

If you want one in Michigan how about Grand Rapids? http://www.grandcentralmarketgr.com/

Should I go on?

**313WX** · November-02-16, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

And what cities have you lived in?

**Mackinaw** · November-04-16, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

What major city has a grocery store in the central business district? None that I've lived in.

What a strange comment.

Downtown Brooklyn is dotted with Key Foods and a Trader Joes, as well as large local market Brooklyn Fare.

Downtown Manhattan, two blocks from the World Trade Center, has a Whole Foods.

Downtown Minneapolis has a Whole Foods.

I do not think Pittsburgh, Columbus, or Cleveland have proper grocery stores in their CBDs, though at least in the case of Pitt/Colum. they do have markets in adjacent hoods, just as Detroit has a midtown Whole Foods. It's a nice chance for Detroit to take a step ahead of its midwest competition.

**Lowell** · November-07-16, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

What a strange comment.

Downtown Brooklyn is dotted with Key Foods and a Trader Joes, as well as large local market Brooklyn Fare.

Downtown Manhattan, two blocks from the World Trade Center, has a Whole Foods.

Downtown Minneapolis has a Whole Foods.

I do not think Pittsburgh, Columbus, or Cleveland have proper grocery stores in their CBDs, though at least in the case of Pitt/Colum. they do have markets in adjacent hoods, just as Detroit has a midtown Whole Foods. It's a nice chance for Detroit to take a step ahead of its midwest competition.

I hear you but in fairness, don’t you think all of those are high [over priced?] venues targeted at the well to do new urban types. It’s not like Krogers or Safeway.

**Onthe405** · November-07-16, 12:33 PM

Within 2 blocks of the 7th Street Metro Center subway station in DTLA:

Ralphs [[Kroger SoCal subsidiary) at 9th and Flower:

https://goo.gl/maps/XMtKDQwJyqx

Smart & Final [[mainstream mid-tier local chain) at Figueroa & 8th:

https://goo.gl/maps/sr1TCtd9tan

**gumby** · November-07-16, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I hear you but in fairness, don’t you think all of those are high [over priced?] venues targeted at the well to do new urban types. It’s not like Krogers or Safeway.

Well aren't well to do urban types generally the inhabitants of downtown areas? So it would make sense that the stores that cater to them would be the ones to locate nearby. Not too many Family Dollars next to million dollar housing.

**Mackinaw** · November-07-16, 04:06 PM

Lowell, Key Foods is as basic as it gets, lower than Kroger for sure. Trader Joe's is a discounter. It has a good reputation [[among some) but it is definitely not a high-end grocer, nor does it try to be one. Whole Foods: hard to make the case that it is overpriced. It is pretty middle of the road these days, and for the products sold, it is competitive.