A modest proposal

**DetroitPlanner** · October-27-09, 03:37 PM

Not surprisingly, I do agree with a lot of what PQZ said.

The best ways to get politicans to listen to you is to give them a public reward. They are creatures of the press and live for good press. Want more buildings saved, more landscaping like Washinton Blvd? Publicly thank them. These folks can be your best ally because they are focused on deliverables that will keep them getting re-elected and will hide from bad press.

Note that I have not said anything that is particularly supportive of what has been [[or not) done. This is how the game is played folks. You further your goal more from being nice than being crabby.

Complaining here does nothing to help your cause. Lets face it, most of you do not vote for City politicians because either you live in the suburbs or keep your official address out there to avoid paying income taxes or lower your insurance. I'd be willing to bet that not even 3 percent of Detroit's electorate has even stumbled upon this page.

**Fnemecek** · October-27-09, 03:54 PM

PQZ:

Yes, yes. The FOBC is 100% at fault. Everything the DEGC does is perfect. We exist only to serve them.

**Johnlodge** · October-27-09, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

PQZ:

Yes, yes. The FOBC is 100% at fault. Everything the DEGC does is perfect. We exist only to serve them.

That's not at all what he said, and sounds an awful lot like a "hissy fit".

**Detroitnerd** · October-27-09, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Want more buildings saved, more landscaping like Washinton Blvd? Publicly thank them. These folks can be your best ally because they are focused on deliverables that will keep them getting re-elected and will hide from bad press.

But what about the movers and shakers at the authorities? When are G.J. et al. up for re-election? That's why I say being nice -- and nice only -- seems naive to me. If I were in power and didn't want to be second-guessed at all, I'd give people that sort of ineffective advice.

At some point, we have to acknowledge that the debate is on an unequal footing.

PQZ · October-27-09, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

But what about the movers and shakers at the authorities? When are G.J. et al. up for re-election? That's why I say being nice -- and nice only -- seems naive to me. If I were in power and didn't want to be second-guessed at all, I'd give people that sort of ineffective advice.

At some point, we have to acknowledge that the debate is on an unequal footing.

I didn't say "Just be nice."

I am suggesting that the praise is faint at best for the good things that get accomplished and the outrage over the far fewer mistakes is over blown. I am suggesting strongly that there is a lack of perspective and sense of scale.

Also, I am not "in power". I do not work for DDA / DEGC and do not live in Michigan. I did once upon a time, but now I don't have to pull punches about either side and I can put differing perspectives out there aside from the same closed feedback loop that seems to be going on here.

Its too bad that when approached with genuine honesty and insight as to what would go a long way to bridge the gap, folks here react with outrage and dig further into the same old trenches.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-27-09, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

But what about the movers and shakers at the authorities? When are G.J. et al. up for re-election? That's why I say being nice -- and nice only -- seems naive to me. If I were in power and didn't want to be second-guessed at all, I'd give people that sort of ineffective advice.

At some point, we have to acknowledge that the debate is on an unequal footing.

George Jackson is appointed by the Mayor. Any complaints that you have should be directed to the person who is in charge.

That being said, all I am trying to convey is PQZ is the messenger. Shooting him down solves nothing. In fact PQZ could be George Jackson for all I know. This is a public forum. Now then if someone wanted to test PQZ's hypothesis I'd be all for it, in fact, put together a award committee and I might even join it. Such a committee could do no harm and would be a constructive way to adressing the problem he points out.

**Fnemecek** · October-27-09, 05:45 PM

With PQZ's comments about the FoBC, one fundamental detail should be pointed out and that's that the FoBC hasn't existed as an organization for more than a year now. Today, it's only a dormant listserv.

The historic preservation groups that do still exist have repeatedly praised the DDA/ DEGC and have presented George Jackson with at least one award that I know about it in the past 12 months. They have also publicly honored the development team behind the Book Cadillac and several others, with said accolades garnering attention from the news media.

In addition, the historic preservation groups that do still exist have not filed lawsuits against the City - with the exception of the OTSC suit that was launched after the DEGC moved to demolish Tiger Stadium.

The historic preservation groups that do still exist have also worked to attract developers and investors to historic preservation projects.

**Fnemecek** · October-27-09, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

George Jackson is appointed by the Mayor. Any complaints that you have should be directed to the person who is in charge.

That being said, all I am trying to convey is PQZ is the messenger. Shooting him down solves nothing. In fact PQZ could be George Jackson for all I know. This is a public forum. Now then if someone wanted to test PQZ's hypothesis I'd be all for it, in fact, put together a award committee and I might even join it. Such a committee could do no harm and would be a constructive way to addressing the problem he points out.

The award committee has existed within Preservation Wayne for several years now. The make awards for historic preservation projects on an annual basis, with George Jackson of the DEGC receiving at least one of these awards.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-27-09, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

The award committee has existed within Preservation Wayne for several years now. The make awards for historic preservation projects on an annual basis, with George Jackson of the DEGC receiving at least one of these awards.

This is why PW is successful in what it takes on. The PW mission is to advocate, not just moan about what they do not like. It takes a constructive approach, not an always divisive one.

**Baselinepunk** · October-27-09, 08:46 PM

I suspect that if one were to put this thread in a sifter, shake, let stand and repeat ... in a once around the end result would be the solution and a means to work forward. I have no doubt that old battles must be reflected on, appreciated and learned from. Perhaps if we were to get these folks at a local watering hole with a bottle of Jack Daniels in the middle of them; friendships could be forged, or perhaps worse. First round is on me.

I see this issue being as pervasive, and reflective, of what this area has become: It's you -- no, it's you -- no, it's you. How does this create anything but grumpies? There is something for everyone, and I'm sure that there is a lot for most; all the while the beautiful lady withers at the shore simply due to posterity. Isn't time we sucked it up and finally got rid of this kind of anchor?

Compromise and understanding are not weaknesses; they are strengths. In the Preservation field there will be more losses than wins; we need to be at peace with that. However, the few wins will turnout to be the most important in the end.

**Fnemecek** · October-27-09, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

This is why PW is successful in what it takes on. The PW mission is to advocate, not just moan about what they do not like. It takes a constructive approach, not an always divisive one.

Well, they have been successful in organizing tours and a few other events. Their success with anything that involves the DDA/ DEGC, however, has been limited at best.

PQZ · October-28-09, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

Well, they have been successful in organizing tours and a few other events. Their success with anything that involves the DDA/ DEGC, however, has been limited at best.

If PW would like to change the success rate DDA/ DEGC, they might do well to review the initial post on this thread.

A key issue to address is that the membership of PW and other organizations is fluid and folks who are members in one group are often members of other groups. In the eyes of the leadership of the City, its all one pile of preservationists. They don't discern between the membership of a group that did nothing to help the BC project, that filed lawsuits on the Statler Hilton, that accuses them of corruption and incompetence in very strident terms and then hands them an award as a representative of another organization.

City leadership does not take the time to say " Citizen A, who wrote this thing about me or lodged that lawsuit, is a member of Organizations B, C and D. What signature did he use or on which organizations behalf was this written?" All three organizations get painted with the same broad brush. This is hardly unexpected.

As long as you have the same voices sending contradictory messages from multiple organizations, City leadership is not going to bother to try to follow the nuances of what person is doing what this month on beahlf of which orgainzation.