QLine going public

[Bigdd]

New promotional video for Q-Line.

https://youtu.be/EF1o7HQGVVs

[emu steve]

The Qline will be useless on fireworks night. It will be stuck in the sea of break lights leaving downtown. Every road out of downtown becomes a parking lot. It will get you there, but there's no way to get back.

The Qline will probably be down on Thanksgiving due to the parade. I can't imagine they will they will leave the Qline powered while you have balloon handlers and oversized vehicles moving down the street. Balloons and overhead exposed wires do not go well together. Woodward avenue is usually shut down completely with the traffic lights removed from Wednesday night until Friday morning.

I guess I'm showing my inexperience...

What I forgot is that the Qline can't go from New Center to near W. Warren and turn around and go back.

It isn't a shared track system where cars can go either direction on the track.

[Detroit Stylin]

I guess I'm showing my inexperience...

What I forgot is that the Qline can't go from New Center to near W. Warren and turn around and go back.

It isn't a shared track system where cars can go either direction on the track.

The only places it can do that at is in front of the LCA and just south of State Street right before the Campus Martius Station

[emu steve]

The only places it can do that at is in front of the LCA and just south of State Street right before the Campus Martius Station

Thanks,

My other question is what happens if a car breakdowns say around W. Warren, near WSU.

How do they get that car off the track?

Does that essentially create a bottleneck in much of the system?

The subway system I know has parallel tracks where the other cars could switch over and single track around the disabled car.

[Lowell]

This is a great review in case anyone missed it above!

Ok, I've taken the QLine about 10 times since opening. I have also connected to it from the 34 Gratiot and 31 Mack busses.

I believe the system will go a long way in introducing Metro and Suburban Detroiters to using transit. I saw a lot of "suburban" faces on the QLine compared with the 31 and 34. There were also some everyday commuters on there who didn't seem to be using it as a novelty. One woman told me that while the bus is a bit faster, the Q Line is a lot more comfortable and clean. And I will say the rowdy crowd of teenagers on the 31 definitely did not make it seem very inviting. Maybe once people are introduced to the idea of using transit, they will take a chance with some bus routes too.

Some negatives, since we all get to complain about nice things:
- The station spacing seems short-sighted at best, idiotic at worst. Why are there several stops only a couple of blocks from each other? Was it really necessary to have a Grand Blvd, Baltimore, and Amsterdam stop? These stops are literally within 1 minute walking distance of each other. Sproat/Adelaide, Montcalm, AND Grand Circus? Again, within one or two minutes of walking distance to each other. Seems very silly.
- The train stopping around the Sproat/Adelaide station to charge up is totally ridiculous. You literally sit at a green light for 2-3 minutes while the traffic and busses whizz by. I can easily see this being a huge detriment to people using the system. It's already slow and sluggish through downtown traffic, let alone the frequent stops between Congress and Sproat.
- Having the tracks in the parking lane southbound is going to be a nightmare. Again, I don't work in transit or urban planning, but this seems extraordinarily bungled. We had to stop several times for illegally parked vehicles. Sure, drivers will get used to it, but why build the tracks at different placements on each side of the road. Real shame they did not go with center-running tracks. That was extraordinarily stupid. The minutes added could make the difference between people using the system, and it being the butt end of a People Mover joke.
- I usually used the app to catch the train close to when it was arriving, so I did not have much of an issue waiting for trains. Travel time, once on the train, varied greatly. I want to say we did Congress to Ferry in 18 or 20 minutes on one run, while another ride going southbound from the Ferry stop took 28-30 minutes.
- I have heard of ambulances and delivery trucks blocking the tracks. I did not see this myself but have seen videos on Facebook of a train stuck LITERALLY 100 feet from the Congress station, behind a parked ambulance, and had to let everyone off in the road. This could've been easily solved if there was a loop of tracks around Campus Martius, so they train could've just turned around back to the CM stop. Instead it had to wait for the ambulance to move, and pull into the Congress station, before heading northbound.
- Carmen Harlan was glitching out like a bad robot. The upcoming station names on the ticker were consistently incorrect, the voice sometimes did not match the station name, the announcements for upcoming stations were almost never correct [[maybe 10% of the time over the 10 rides I was on) and most of the time were not working or on at all.

Overall these little issues will hopefully be sussed out as time goes on and the system is more frequently used. Some of the choices do seem silly though. I am only worried because this was one of our big shots to prove a point about transit being an effective alternative mode of transportation in the region. This really could've been a great proof of concept and a great way to introduce people in the region to future rail / rapid transit. However these small slow downs, travel times, ill-conceived track and station placement, may instead make the train be perceived as "yet another People Mover" in the eyes of the uninformed.

OH, also, they should be expanding this thing ASAP. Despite the issues, it needs to go to Belle Isle, maybe a bit further up Woodward. A michigan or Gratiot line would be great too. The sooner we can expand this system the better. I do not believe it should go to the suburbs. The QLine should be part of an inner-city streetcar system, complemented by BRT or a rapid transit to the suburbs.

[emu steve]

W/out dismissing specific issues, getting more cars circulating along the route will solve a lot of problems except breakdowns, ambulances in the way, etc.

I'd guess is that the success of the system will be the 85th percentile score [[time) for making a trip from one end to the other and also the amount of variability in times.

E.g., if the 85th percentile time from one end to the other end is say 25 minutes [[assuming that to mean that 85 percent of the times were less than that 85 percentile time) that might be deemed acceptable.

The question then becomes what are the times of say the 90th, 95th and even 99th percentile time?

If the 95th percentile time is say 40 minutes that is a significant problem.

Someone living downtown but working New Center wants reliable service and arrival time is important. It isn't like arriving at Comerica Park at 6:55 vs. 6:45.

[CrashDummy]

New promotional video for Q-Line.

https://youtu.be/EF1o7HQGVVs

This is pretty much the worst video ever made.

[gumby]

This is pretty much the worst video ever made.

Hope you guys realize the video is a joke.

[O3H]

Should we be excited, I'm not.

If the line averages 5,000 riders a day,
that still leaves it with fewer passengers
than the oft-maligned Detroit People Mover,
the downtown elevated 3-mile monorail loop
that opened in 1987 and was intended as a
piece of a wider system that failed to develop.

The 12-car People Mover last year had 2.1 million riders,
averaging nearly 6,000 a day — numbers that get inflated
because of events such as the Detroit auto show
and Red Wings games. It has 13 stations,
while the QLine has 20 stations spread over 12 stops.

[Bigdd]

Keep in mind that officials predicted that the People Mover would have 55,000 riders per day [[20+ MILLION per year)

Within a month or so of it's opening,.. that expectation had been reduced to 15,000 per day [[just under 5.5 million per year).

The reality ended up being about 1/10 of the original prediction,,... at 5,700 riders per day [[2.1 million per year).

It will be a year or two before we have any clue as to the Q-Line's success. It would be a 1 in a 1,000 shot though that the reality = the expectations. A few lines in the country have well exceeded the expectations,.. but most have fallen WAY short.

Basically it's really hard to predict, and one certainly can't use the opening weeks with free fares as a clue.

If it's anywhere near as successful as the People Mover,... perhaps it will be considered a success?

[emu steve]

I believe I posted an article [[Freep?) showing that the last nine streetcar systems did as follows [[relative to expectations):

Six did worse [[than expected). Three did better.

I'm betting QLine will do better than expected.

[clubboss]

Free until July 1

[emu steve]

Free until July 1

I'm not a big fan of giving a product [[or service) away for too long. The marketing theory is if the price is zero or too low, then the product or service is devalued in the eyes of the consumer.

That said, QLine appears to still have a lot of wrinkles to iron out so customers will be more forgiving if the service is free.

Isn't there an old saying: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

"Proverb[edit]

don't look a gift horse in the mouth

1. Do not unappreciatively question a gift or handout too closely."

All of that said, I think the QLine folks are doing a very good job on the roll out and dealing what is a new mode of transportation [[DETROIT's QLine) that NO had experience.

Just because a rider has taken mass transit of any form [[subway, streetcar, BRT, etc.) in some other city, doesn't mean they walk up to a QLine station and be an experienced QLine rider...

[Gsgeorge]

Just because a rider has taken mass transit of any form [[subway, streetcar, BRT, etc.) in some other city, doesn't mean they walk up to a QLine station and be an experienced QLine rider...

I have noticed Detroit QLine riders seem almost entirely unaccustomed to rail transit or transit in general. Most shove their way onto the train as soon as the doors open, or alternately do not clear the area around the doors when arriving at a station... If you've used transit anywhere in the world you generally know to let people off before attempting to get on, and to make room for riders getting on. In addition, I've seen a lot of people under 60 sitting in the handicapped seats and not giving up their seats to elderly riders. Finally, a few people have brought on bikes without using the provided bike hooks, instead opting to take up 30sqft with their bike in the center of the car.

[emu steve]

And as folks here posted, things can go badly wrong when streetcars and other vehicles try to be at the same place at the same time.

[[D.C. streetcar rear-ended a bus).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c133000fa538

[emu steve]

Latest news. Progress being made and plans to get better.

The price is still right: $0.00.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...day/417333001/

[renf]

If the Q line served 100,000 passengers in its first month of operation, it carried about 3,300, on average, each day. Were there predictions that the service would eventually carry about 8,000 each day?

[emu steve]

I believe 5K, but I'll look for it in writing.

Don't remember if the 5K was the financial 'break even' point.

Calling ProfessorScott

BTW, near the bottom of the article is a LOT of very good detail on adding service, training more drivers, etc. etc. to significantly improve wait times.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...day/417333001/

e.g.,

• More drivers are being trained and will be deployed in the coming weeks to allow the full implementation of a four-car service during off-peak operations and a five-car operation during peak service times.

[Honky Tonk]

Latest news. Progress being made and plans to get better.

The price is still right: $0.00.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...day/417333001/

Seriously? With all the need there is for that money, the Kresge Foundation chose to give a bunch of sport jocks free train rides back and forth to the parking lots.

[ekleezy]

I wish it was on wire longer. It's great that the battery is good enough to be off-wire for most of the trip, but it just makes wait times longer. The streetcars seem to always stop at either end for 10+ minutes to recharge.
Probably part of what makes the wait times so unpredictable too.

[dtowncitylover]

Seriously? With all the need there is for that money, the Kresge Foundation chose to give a bunch of sport jocks free train rides back and forth to the parking lots.

You haven't ridden it have you?

[Honky Tonk]

You haven't ridden it have you?

No, no need to, and I haven't drank the Kool-Aid either.

[dtowncitylover]

No, no need to, and I haven't drank the Kool-Aid either.

Well, there's no Kool-Aid and secondly, the ridership I've come across in incredibly diverse. Homeless, college students, older Mormon missionary couple [[they're not all 19 year olds!) going to the African-American History Museum, young families, and on and on. But have fun in your cynical, closed corner!

[Honky Tonk]

Well, there's no Kool-Aid and secondly, the ridership I've come across in incredibly diverse. Homeless, college students, older Mormon missionary couple [[they're not all 19 year olds!) going to the African-American History Museum, young families, and on and on. But have fun in your cynical, closed corner!

Thank you, you have your fun in the green zone subsidized by other Detroit taxpayers money. Had I answered "Why, yes I have" your answer probably would be different. It's a new carousel and it's free. Of course people are going to ride it. I notice you threw in "African-American" to drive the "diversity" point home.

[dtowncitylover]

Thank you, you have your fun in the green zone subsidized by other Detroit taxpayers money. Had I answered "Why, yes I have" your answer probably would be different. It's a new carousel and it's free. Of course people are going to ride it. I notice you threw in "African-American" to drive the "diversity" point home.

No, I threw in the African-American History Museum because that's literally where they were going. The only diversity that brings out is the diversity of places that people use the streetcar for.

And if your answer was yes, your response of "sport jocks" wouldn't have been made because you would've seen the diversity of the people who ride it.