Downtown Construction

[3WC]

True, context is very important.

However, here's where we differ, whether by experience, aesthetics or whatever.

The surrounding buildings, those still remaining, were built in a different era when the economics of real estate were vastly different. I imagine the Statler developer is building low rise, stick built apartments because by doing so they can build a quality project at a reasonable cost and make some money in the process. I doubt very much they will make much money, and the longer they wait the more it costs them as a result of rising construction and financing costs. Frankly, although I have far from sufficient information, my guess is that for those reasons the Statler project going foreward is iffy. [[I'm told that the maximum height one can go stick built is 5 or 6 stories and higher than that requires steel and concrete, which makes it economically not feasibible.)

I also believe that new high rise residential construction in this market is not economically feasible. [[In Manhattan, it's booming and the average condo/co-op price is exceeding $20 million. The numbers apparently work there.)

The Statler development [[apparently a very simple development) is taking far, far too long to commence. Time is money and they are losing a lot of both by the time it's taking. Something is awry and only time will tell what it is.

[mwilbert]

[[I'm told that the maximum height one can go stick built is 5 or 6 stories and higher than that requires steel and concrete, which makes it economically not feasible.)

This has traditionally been the case, but new building systems have extended that height to at least twice that.

See, for instance,http://www.architectmagazine.com/tec...ning-designs_o

However, these systems are not yet in wide use nor are local codes necessarily updated to allow them, so the fact that they exist isn't necessarily relevant to this issue. More relevant is that, in general I haven't seen a lot of evidence that even with mainstream techniques the per sq ft price of a ten story building is significantly higher than that of a five story building--the estimates I see indicate that it should be a few percent lower, so I'm not sure that is a good explanation of why the developer is building such a relatively short building on that site.

[southen]

True, context is very important.

However, here's where we differ, whether by experience, aesthetics or whatever.

The surrounding buildings, those still remaining, were built in a different era when the economics of real estate were vastly different. I imagine the Statler developer is building low rise, stick built apartments because by doing so they can build a quality project at a reasonable cost and make some money in the process. I doubt very much they will make much money, and the longer they wait the more it costs them as a result of rising construction and financing costs. Frankly, although I have far from sufficient information, my guess is that for those reasons the Statler project going foreward is iffy. [[I'm told that the maximum height one can go stick built is 5 or 6 stories and higher than that requires steel and concrete, which makes it economically not feasibible.)

I also believe that new high rise residential construction in this market is not economically feasible. [[In Manhattan, it's booming and the average condo/co-op price is exceeding $20 million. The numbers apparently work there.)

The Statler development [[apparently a very simple development) is taking far, far too long to commence. Time is money and they are losing a lot of both by the time it's taking. Something is awry and only time will tell what it is.

I will agree with you that VG is very much likely going the cheap route with this development to maximize their return. They care very little about design based on this building and the aesthetic choices they have made with their other buildings.

If you were looking to do a quality development and not just one to simply maximize profit you might consider elevating the residences above the people mover so they don't have to hear that thing right outside their windows. You also might optimize your best asset by creating more apartments overlooking Grand Circus Park and not blocking that few with a billboard.

I look at this from a design standpoint and keeping in mind the importance of the Statler block. You seem to be looking at this economically, which is completely logical, but I feel it means your design standards drop drastically.

VG goes for cheap and uninspired and I remain disappointed the the city gave them the rights to the site knowing what they were going to do with it. It has been empty since the Super Bowl, a few more years of waiting while things like the Arena District, M1, and Hudson's come online would not have hurt things, but would allow a developer with vision to take on the site as it becomes that much more appealing to build there.