Fiscal Cliff Thread

[TKshreve]

Fine, take all the rich peoples money. We could literally raise taxes to 100% on all millionaires/billionaires - we could take very dollar they have and still owe trillions of dollars.

At some point we have to realize there is no money and the sooner we realize it and change our habits the easier it's going to be. We are literally enslaving our children and stealing their futures.

That's simply not true and you're shooting from the hip. In fact it is said that the ultra wealthy have trillions stashed illegally overseas {http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...re-study-says/} which would go a long way towards paying back the debt. Granted, a lot of it is foreign "investment" but I would venture to guess the U.S. has a good chunk of it. Just imagine if this money was even circulating through our economy [[or trickling down if you like) let alone been taxed. Yeah, we'd be having a very different conversation right now.

Additionally, a grand "offer" was posed to the conservative congressmen last time around with $10 of spending cuts to every $1 of revenue increase. Was that not sufficient enough to get the ball rolling? What will bring the right to the bargaining table?

[JVB]

That's simply not true and you're shooting from the hip.

It is most certainly true. The entire GDP of the United States is around $15 trillion which is over a trillion less than the national debt. That's the entire freaking gross domestic product of the entire country and everyone in it. There is no math in the world that makes this level of spending sustainable.

In fact it is said that the ultra wealthy have trillions stashed illegally overseas {http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...re-study-says/} which would go a long way towards paying back the debt. Granted, a lot of it is foreign "investment" but I would venture to guess the U.S. has a good chunk of it. Just imagine if this money was even circulating through our economy [[or trickling down if you like) let alone been taxed. Yeah, we'd be having a very different conversation right now.

You seem to be confusing all of the money in the world, with all the money that rich people in the US have. Regardless, how can you justify taking everything from some people to give it to other people. Can I come to your house and take all of your stuff and give it my friends and family? Do you think everyone in the world should have equal money, property etc?

Additionally, a grand "offer" was posed to the conservative congressmen last time around with $10 of spending cuts to every $1 of revenue increase. Was that not sufficient enough to get the ball rolling? What will bring the right to the bargaining table?

That was not an offer, it was posed as a question by a moderator at a debate. But yes, they would be stupid not to do something like that. It's irrelevant though because congress will never make those types of cuts under any administration. Republicans and Democrats have a big problem with spending other people's money.

[oladub]

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Additionally, a grand "offer" was posed to the conservative congressmen last time around with $10 of spending cuts to every $1 of revenue increase. Was that not sufficient enough to get the ball rolling? What will bring the right to the bargaining table?

The Bowles-Simpson Commission did come up with the following. The President and Congressional Republicans did agree to go along with the Bowles-Simpson plan. Since it has been published though we have only been hearing crickets from both sides.

From wikipedia - On November 10 NCFRR co-chairs Simpson and Bowles released a draft proposal for consideration by other commission members. The proposal presented five "steps"

1. $200 billion reduction per year in discretionary spending with proposed cuts including reducing defense procurement by 15% and closing one third of overseas bases, eliminating earmarks, and cutting the federal work force by 10%.
2. $100 billion in increased tax revenues through various tax reform proposals, such as introducing a 15 cent per gallon gasoline tax and eliminating or restricting a variety of tax deductions such as the home mortgage interest deduction and the deduction for employer-provided healthcare benefits.
3. Controlling health care costs by maintaining the Medicare cost controls associated with the recent health care reform legislation, in addition to considering a public option and a further increase in the authority ofIndependent Payment Advisory Board.
4. A reduction in entitlements, including farm subsidies, civilian and military federal pensions and student loan subsidies.
5. Modifications to the Social Security program to raise the payroll tax and the retirement age