Dead Metro Detroit Malls *Universal, Livonia and Summit Place Mall pictures included*

[DetroitDad]

Great pictures!

Change is always tough, but in this case I think it will prove to be a good thing.

I know Wonderland was once an open air mall. Does anyone know what was on these sites before they were malls?

[LodgeDodger]

Great pictures!

Change is always tough, but in this case I think it will prove to be a good thing.

I know Wonderland was once an open air mall. Does anyone know what was on these sites before they were malls?

And how, will this prove to be a good thing? Summit Place Mall is empty except for the anchors. The only reason the anchors are still open is due to the stores having a direct entrance from outside. The largest retailer around Summit, at this time, is a St. Vincent DePaul store. There is a Target store, but I'm quite sure it won't be in operation long--they currently lose $66K/week to shoplifting.

Tell me how this has the potential to be a good thing, DetroitDad.

[Det_ard]

And how, will this prove to be a good thing? Summit Place Mall is empty except for the anchors. The only reason the anchors are still open is due to the stores having a direct entrance from outside. The largest retailer around Summit, at this time, is a St. Vincent DePaul store. There is a Target store, but I'm quite sure it won't be in operation long--they currently lose $66K/week to shoplifting.

Tell me how this has the potential to be a good thing, DetroitDad.

To the west and south of the mall retail is pretty dead, but to the east [[across Telegraph) there seems to be a lot still. At one point I heard about a proposal for a minor league baseball stadium for the soon-to-be-dead Summit Place Mall site. That'd be cool.

That Target shoplifting figure is insane. $3 million a year? Average sales per store is about $38 million, that particular Target is probably $30 million or less so shrink is 10% of revenue [[assuming the $66k figure is at retail)?? Like I said, insane, if true. Average is probably 2% - 3%. That's enough shrink to put the store out of business if it were a stand-alone.

[LodgeDodger]

The Oakland Pointe shopping area isn't in much better condition. Other than a couple of restaurants, a women's store, some fast-food restaurants, and a huge dollar store, there really isn't much over there to write home about.

The area is dying. I don't understand how it can be 'a good thing'.

As far as the Cruisers team, I've not heard much about them of late.

[Johnlodge]

And how, will this prove to be a good thing? Summit Place Mall is empty except for the anchors. The only reason the anchors are still open is due to the stores having a direct entrance from outside. The largest retailer around Summit, at this time, is a St. Vincent DePaul store. There is a Target store, but I'm quite sure it won't be in operation long--they currently lose $66K/week to shoplifting.

Tell me how this has the potential to be a good thing, DetroitDad.

Sean thinks that if the suburbs die, everybody will move back to the city and his decision to move there will be vindicated. In fact, if that happens then the region as a whole will just die, and the City of Detroit will be even more dead than it is without any surrounding economic activity to share at least some symbiotic benefit with.

And no, Lodgedodger hasn't changed at all from what I've seen. Must be something else.

[LodgeDodger]

Sean thinks that if the suburbs die, everybody will move back to the city and his decision to move there will be vindicated. In fact, if that happens then the region as a whole will just die, and the City of Detroit will be even more dead than it is without any surrounding economic activity to share at least some symbiotic benefit with.

And no, Lodgedodger hasn't changed at all from what I've seen. Must be something else.

Thank you, John. *big hug*

[DetroitDad]

Sean thinks that if the suburbs die, everybody will move back to the city and his decision to move there will be vindicated. In fact, if that happens then the region as a whole will just die, and the City of Detroit will be even more dead than it is without any surrounding economic activity to share at least some symbiotic benefit with.

And no, Lodgedodger hasn't changed at all from what I've seen. Must be something else.

If you think that the suburbs of this country are in any way sustainable, you are living on fantasy island buddy.

[DTWflyer]

Partridge Creek is not performing to expectations for many retailers. Expect a few stores to close when their leases come up for renewal.

[aoife]

If you think that the suburbs of this country are in any way sustainable, you are living on fantasy island buddy.

That statement is ridiculous on so many levels. Clearly you have issues with suburbs, but work it out and grow up. Not every suburb is some crazy built-up ex-urb in the middle of nowhere. I live in a suburb that has been around for over a hundred years- it can be very sustainable if you get the design right and maintain it with good services. And people who actually care about their neighborhood.

[Johnlodge]

If you think that the suburbs of this country are in any way sustainable, you are living on fantasy island buddy.

I'm no fan of uncontrolled sprawl. I live in Ferndale, does this pass your judgement test? People who first lived in these houses built Model-Ts for a living. Is it acceptable for me to raise children here, or will that make me one of your terrible suburban parents whose children are ticking time bombs about to go on a rampage of drugs and violence at any moment simply because of where they live? Err, where was that bus stop shooting again? I just want to make sure my decisions on how and where to raise my family meet the standards of the twenty-something expert. If where I live is cool with you, then maybe we can pass judgement on people who live further out, and talk about how they don't know how to raise their kids, and it will make us feel better about our own decisions.

[DetroitDad]

I'm no fan of uncontrolled sprawl. I live in Ferndale, does this pass your judgement test? People who first lived in these houses built Model-Ts for a living. Is it acceptable for me to raise children here, or will that make me one of your terrible suburban parents whose children are ticking time bombs about to go on a rampage of drugs and violence at any moment simply because of where they live? Err, where was that bus stop shooting again? I just want to make sure my decisions on how and where to raise my family meet the standards of the twenty-something expert. If where I live is cool with you, then maybe we can pass judgement on people who live further out, and talk about how they don't know how to raise their kids, and it will make us feel better about our own decisions.

Oh get off your pedestal. It's not all about you.

Recently, a DetroitYES poster brought up a story about a woman who he confronted about throwing a piece of trash on the ground. The woman responded to the poster with much hostility and racism, say he shouldn't be telling her what to do, and to mind his own business. The funny thing is that he was minding his own business, he had to deal with the problem she created.

You are doing the same thing as this woman. Unsustainability hurts my family, community, city, and region, it's not all about you. I don't really care what you do Johnlodge, but if you want to live a destructive lifestyle that affects my community and region, you bet your ass I'm going to take issue with that.

I take it you took offence to my latest blog post, feel free to go and post your quills over there on the rest of the issues, as parenting and malls aren't really related, unless you are talking about the parents I mentioned in my post who essentially built self contained malls for their kids to keep them from going out and exploring the world.

[Johnlodge]

Oh get off your pedestal. It's not all about you.

Recently, a DetroitYES poster brought up a story about a woman who he confronted about throwing a piece of trash on the ground. The woman responded to the poster with much hostility and racism, say he shouldn't be telling her what to do, and to mind his own business. The funny thing is that he was minding his own business, he had to deal with the problem she created.

You are doing the same thing as this woman. Unsustainability hurts my family, community, city, and region, it's not all about you. I don't really care what you do Johnlodge, but if you want to live a destructive lifestyle that affects my community and region, you bet your ass I'm going to take issue with that.

I take it you took offence to my latest blog post, feel free to go and post your quills over there on the rest of the issues, as parenting and malls aren't really related, unless you are talking about the parents I mentioned in my post who essentially built self contained malls for their kids to keep them from going out and exploring the world.

First, if you are going to change the wording of my comments there on your blog as you have done, I'd appreciate if you'd just delete the comment as you do the rest of the comments made there that don't agree with you. You changed my words to insult Detroiters, I have nothing against Detroiters. You see, I don't judge people based on where they live. Living in the city is great if that's what someone chooses to do.

Second, how is where I live any less sustainable than where you live? I have as much mass transit here as you do, minus the little amusement park ride that goes around in a circle downtown. I can walk to the grocery store and hardware store and much of anything else I need, can you? There are three grocery stores within a 10 minute walk from me. Ferndale has a higher population density than many areas of Detroit. You are telling other people how and where to live, and then claiming others are the ones on a pedestal? You are criticizing the parenting of others without having raised a child yourself, and claiming others are on a pedestal? Start worrying about yourself and your soon-to-be family and less about what everybody else is doing.

[Stosh]

If you think that the suburbs of this country are in any way sustainable, you are living on fantasy island buddy.

I can't believe that you actually feel that Detroit is sustainable in it's present shape and form. Why so negative? Just because you have had a bad experience in Suburbia doesn't make it all bad. Hang out in Royal Oak, lots of packs of hipsters there, spouting inanities. You'd feel right at home. And there's even a bus line!

I just love the view from Campus Martius as well, it doesn't mean that me setting up a BBQ in Perrien Park will be as nice. now THAT's an 'urban park". Sure as hell ain't no waterfalls and ponds there.

[DetroitDad]

I can't believe that you actually feel that Detroit is sustainable in it's present shape and form. Why so negative? Just because you have had a bad experience in Suburbia doesn't make it all bad. Hang out in Royal Oak, lots of packs of hipsters there, spouting inanities. You'd feel right at home. And there's even a bus line!

I just love the view from Campus Martius as well, it doesn't mean that me setting up a BBQ in Perrien Park will be as nice. now THAT's an 'urban park". Sure as hell ain't no waterfalls and ponds there.

Wait, you think just by living in Detroit city limits equates to sustainable living or makes you better than anyone? Excuse my confusion, because I am sure I never said the current state of Detroit is considered sustainable.

That might be the view of some Detroiters, but not me.

Pssst.... Stosh thinks I am a hipster! Hehe, the jokes on him, because I am definitely NOT hip!

[Stosh]

Wait, you think just by living in Detroit city limits is sustainable living or makes you better than anyone? Excuse my confusion, because I am sure I never said the current state of Detroit is considered sustainable.

That might be the view of some Detroiters, but not me.

Well, obviously, you sure could have fooled me. by your recent statements on how wonderful Detroit living is, and the obvious evils of suburban living. That's all well and good, to each his own. But really, the "fuck the suburbs" mantra is truly a red herring argument [[with apologies to Gistok). Detroit's suburbs are older than you think. Or at least let on.

They survived through the Depression, 2 world wars, among other notable situations. The flow of traffic into the city still happens, and just as easily flows back. Wishing the suburbs would disappear would be a wonderful thing, apparently, to some. I'll let you in on a little secret. The suburbs are Detroit, just as much as Detroit is the suburbs. Detroit doesn't stop at the Boulevard anymore. Beyond the Boulevard, was once considered the suburbs. Townships.

And I don't consider downtown to be representative of the real Detroit. More like the Green Zone in Baghdad. Well, not that bad, but the comparison is valid. Resources are funneled into the core, letting the outer rings suffer. AND....

Pssst.... Stosh thinks I am a hipster! Hehe, the jokes on him, because I am definitely NOT hip!

Not what I said. I said you would fit in with the inane commentary. Otherwise, I agree with you.