Robert Bobb 2.0: Consolidate districts to Detroit-Wayne Regional Schools

[bailey]

Why is it that the solution so often proposed here is to 'grow' Detroit... either by physical boundary [[annexation) or by ridiculous proposals such as this one when the clear facts show that if anything, Detroit should be massively shrunk at all levels? A new revenue stream to skim off of by corrupt halfwits and unfit parents like Reverend David Murray is not a solution. Screaming 'racism' at resistance to this asinine proposal is just as ridiculous as the proposal itself. One of the few things keeping property values in most of the suburbs from going into outright Detroit style free fall, is the quality of the schools, the delivery of services, and the local control over both.

But, actually, I hope that those pushing this proposal [[if anyone actually is..) are successful in their attempt to unite all of Wayne county ...perhaps even the tri-county area under one school district and services provider. It would, at least, bring closure and finality to the region. The death spiral would be complete because the amount of divestment and destruction of stable suburban communities that would come from giving Reverand David Murray and the grape throwing mobs the final say over the schools there would be epic.

[Gsgeorge]

Detroit should be split up into a few cities. We could have Delta City, which would include downtown, midtown, and surrounding neighborhoods. Then the rest of the city could be Old Detroit. The Police could concentrate their efforts on lowering crime in Old Detroit while Delta City could prosper as a hub for tech companies and big corporations. Then, when things start to improve, we could use the tech businesses to help deploy a unit of hi-tech robotic policemen to enforce the law, lowering police officers' risks and making the city safer as a whole.

[stinkbug]

Let's get one thing perfectly fucking straight...you can't call anything in Michigan stable anymore. I don't give a shit how bland the suburb is or how monied the school district is. This isn't the 1980's anymore.
Looking down your noses at Detroit doesn't work anymore. The state and most of the suburbs are on the fast track to bankruptcy. Construction on those beautiful new plywood McMansions has come to a grinding halt. Every community is losing population and failing to create jobs. The decay in the inner ring burbs is a sign of what's to come for the rest of them.
It doesn't matter if you're the richest motherfucker on the Titanic. This region - as it stands - city and suburb - are on track to oblivion. Go ahead, fiddle while Macomb Township burns.
We have to get over our fear of brown people and white people and losing what pitiful shit we have because we're going to lose it anyway if we don't try something new and drastic.
Oh, but this is Southeast Michigan...the anus of the universe, where we don't even have mass transit and our industrious former autoworkers can't even read. No wonder no one wants to live here. Oh well, let's all just move to GPP! Great schools!

[ziggyselbin]

Let's get one thing perfectly fucking straight...you can't call anything in Michigan stable anymore. I don't give a shit how bland the suburb is or how monied the school district is. This isn't the 1980's anymore.
Looking down your noses at Detroit doesn't work anymore. The state and most of the suburbs are on the fast track to bankruptcy. Construction on those beautiful new plywood McMansions has come to a grinding halt. Every community is losing population and failing to create jobs. The decay in the inner ring burbs is a sign of what's to come for the rest of them.
It doesn't matter if you're the richest motherfucker on the Titanic. This region - as it stands - city and suburb - are on track to oblivion. Go ahead, fiddle while Macomb Township burns.
We have to get over our fear of brown people and white people and losing what pitiful shit we have because we're going to lose it anyway if we don't try something new and drastic.
Oh, but this is Southeast Michigan...the anus of the universe, where we don't even have mass transit and our industrious former autoworkers can't even read. No wonder no one wants to live here. Oh well, let's all just move to GPP! Great schools!

That is all bullshit

[EastsideAl]

Nice proposal, but someone obviously hasn't been around here long enough. In this thread you're now getting a lesson in good ol' Detroit area racial [[i.e. "oh no, it's not about race") politics. Anyone who remembers how hard the suburbs fought back in the 70s to keep any Detroit schoolchildren from crossing their borders, or remembers L.Brooks becoming a major public figure by trying to keep Pontiac schools from integrating [[they torched the buses when they lost), would realize the futility of such a proposal. Sounds nice on paper, but a lot of folks around here will do almost anything to keep "them" out of their schools and away from their kids. Which makes it a complete non-starter, along with most of the other things folks don't want "them" involved with. It's the main reason why politics around these parts seem to be stuck in some sort of time warp.

[EastsideAl]

Let's get one thing perfectly fucking straight...you can't call anything in Michigan stable anymore. I don't give a shit how bland the suburb is or how monied the school district is. This isn't the 1980's anymore.
Looking down your noses at Detroit doesn't work anymore. The state and most of the suburbs are on the fast track to bankruptcy. Construction on those beautiful new plywood McMansions has come to a grinding halt. Every community is losing population and failing to create jobs. The decay in the inner ring burbs is a sign of what's to come for the rest of them.
It doesn't matter if you're the richest motherfucker on the Titanic. This region - as it stands - city and suburb - are on track to oblivion. Go ahead, fiddle while Macomb Township burns.
We have to get over our fear of brown people and white people and losing what pitiful shit we have because we're going to lose it anyway if we don't try something new and drastic.
Oh, but this is Southeast Michigan...the anus of the universe, where we don't even have mass transit and our industrious former autoworkers can't even read. No wonder no one wants to live here. Oh well, let's all just move to GPP! Great schools!

This is pretty much dead on the money. We remain engaged in the animosities and arguments and racial pissing contests of the past, while Rome has damn near burned down already.

[bailey]

This is pretty much dead on the money. We remain engaged in the animosities and arguments and racial pissing contests of the past, while Rome has damn near burned down already.

which was pretty well illustrated by your previous post which can be summed up as "anyone against this..or anything like it...is racist".

[stinkbug]

That is all bullshit

How? The state is insolvent and is to get worse over the next 2 years[[then we won't have stimulus money). Source? See today's paper. We have the highest unemployment rate in the country. So what are your sources? Please explain if you're going to call bullshit.

[Retroit]

Some of us are apparently not keeping up with the times. Many of the suburbs of Detroit have open districts and gladly welcome children from Detroit... black children from Detroit. We're not racists out here [[suburbs) as you would like to think we are.

[iheartthed]

How? The state is insolvent and is to get worse over the next 2 years[[then we won't have stimulus money). Source? See today's paper. We have the highest unemployment rate in the country. So what are your sources? Please explain if you're going to call bullshit.

Don't forget that the unemployment rate has been the highest in the nation since well before the most recent recession began. Michigan has been shedding jobs annually for 10 years straight. Oh, and it costs about as much to buy a house in a ghetto in California as it does in a tony suburb in the Detroit area.

[DetroitDad]

Some of us are apparently not keeping up with the times. Many of the suburbs of Detroit have open districts and gladly welcome children from Detroit... black children from Detroit. We're not racists out here [[suburbs) as you would like to think we are.

Do you know any whites who would send their kids to a majority black school if it was making the grade?

[professorscott]

All of the "you're a racist!" "no, you're a racist!" arguments in this thread are worse than stupid; they're harmful. Let's face facts.

The Detroit Public Schools are so bad, so absolutely Godawful, that they are now probably the major reason black families continue to abandon Detroit for the suburbs. They have been bad for a very long time, and Detroit Board of Education after Detroit Board of Education has been all about the money and the power [[and the opportunities for corruption thereby provided), and never about children or schools. Mr. Bobb is working wonders, but he's a temp. If I thought he might stay on for five or ten years, and deprive the elected board of any power whatever, I wouldn't say what I say now:

Why would anyone think that parents in Dearborn Heights, or Allen Park, or Southfield or Oak Park or Fraser or anywhere else would want the people who control the Detroit Public Schools most of the time to have any say whatever in how their children are educated?

If anyone made a serious attempt to consolidate Detroit schools with any number of suburban districts, those suburban districts would depopulate so quickly there'd be burn marks on the pavement. And this has precious little to do with race, though there are some who love to play that card. For instance, I believe the public schools in Southfield are now over 50% African American; nonetheless, suggest combining DPS with the schools in Southfield and let me know how that conversation goes.

It's not about race, it's about effectiveness. Parents want their children to get a reasonably good education in a safe environment, and DPS has not delivered for many decades. DPS is the Detroit Lions of public education: they suck, and they suck every year, and they suck very reliably. DPS is now well under 100,000 students, and still sinking.

I fail to see how attaching other boats to a sinking ship is going to benefit anyone. I fail to see how making school districts larger is supposed to be in any way a good thing; Detroit is the largest public school district in the state, hardly an advertisement for "big".

I'm amazed at some of the rhetoric on this thread. Apparently for some of you, it's not about children or quality of education. Shame; it ought to be. We are throwing away tens of thousands of young lives every year, and it ought to stop, and it can stop, but merging DPS with anything else is ludicrous.

[crawford]

For instance, I believe the public schools in Southfield are now over 50% African American; nonetheless, suggest combining DPS with the schools in Southfield and let me know how that conversation goes.

The Southfield Public Schools actually have a slightly higher % of blacks than the Detroit Public Schools, but, because of the vastly different socioeconomics, they would empty out in no time.

The % African American in DPS has actually dropped a bit in recent years, due to Latino growth in SW Detroit, though it remains overwhelmingly [[94% or something) AA.

[reddog289]

I can't say that I would never send my kid to DPS. That district has a bad rep and needs to overcome it. Therefore I wouldn't send the kid there for the fact she's a senior and hell she does good where she is at.But Parents get funny when it comes to their kids and the schools they attend. I myself could not care what ever color the kid is who attends the schools I work at as long as they don't trash the place and learn while they are there.
Like I said before the people in charge of these districts would fight it , as well as some parents,and homeowners.
Until I myself started working for the schools I could not have given a rats ass about the schools cause I was graduated and outta there.But as a home owner and "parent" I see the big picture.Which brings me back to when I worked at the PrintShop/Advertising Agency which dealt with a few now defunct grocery stores. The grocery business was cut throat, and I see the same thing now with the schools.

[crawford]

Don't forget that the unemployment rate has been the highest in the nation since well before the most recent recession began. Michigan has been shedding jobs annually for 10 years straight. .

This is pretty major hyberbole.

Michigan has been shedding jobs for six years. Before that, it's unemployment rate was well below the national average. In fact, in 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was half the national average.

Oh, and it costs about as much to buy a house in a ghetto in California as it does in a tony suburb in the Detroit area.

More hyperbole. The CA housing market has collapsed, and has experienced far greater drops in valuation than in MI.

And a "ghetto" house in, let's say, LA, can be had for almost nothing. Even a brand new house in a working class suburb of LA can be had for around $100,000 [[and sometimes less in the Inland Empire).

In contrast, I guarantee you cannot find a single $200,000 house in Bloomfield Hills. Heck, I would be surprised if you could find a $300,000 home [[Bloomfield City proper, not Township).

[Cincinnati_Kid]

This is pretty major hyberbole.

Michigan has been shedding jobs for six years. Before that, it's unemployment rate was well below the national average. In fact, in 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was half the national average.



More hyperbole. The CA housing market has collapsed, and has experienced far greater drops in valuation than in MI.

And a "ghetto" house in, let's say, LA, can be had for almost nothing. Even a brand new house in a working class suburb of LA can be had for around $100,000 [[and sometimes less in the Inland Empire).

In contrast, I guarantee you cannot find a single $200,000 house in Bloomfield Hills. Heck, I would be surprised if you could find a $300,000 home [[Bloomfield City proper, not Township).

You're nuts. There are foreclosed homes in Bloomfield Hills that can be had for $200.000 There are foreclosed homes everywhere in Oakland County that can be had for that or less. They just had a house on the news, that was in Bloomfield Hills that sold for $799,000 in 07 that's selling for $190,000 today. Houses in Bloomfield Hills, Troy, Rochester, Birmingham......or any other "toney" suburb, lose value just like any other place. Get a clue.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

"Nearby Detroit Finney" at Cadieux and Warren is boarded up and closed.

Those kids share a middle school over on Marlborough now.

Ease up on "the brown people are coming" chant until you get your paranoia straight.

That's all Crawford's conversations exist on is the "brown people are coming" mantra. His posts always reflect a reference of "decline" or indifference in regards to shifts of demographics, education, housing or anything involving said "brown people" . He's a closet racist. Nothing positive ever comes out his "piehole"

[iheartthed]

This is pretty major hyberbole.

Michigan has been shedding jobs for six years. Before that, it's unemployment rate was well below the national average. In fact, in 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was half the national average.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???? Michigan's unemployment rate has NEVER been half the national average. EVER. In 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was only slightly below the national average. It wouldn't even make sense for Michigan's unemployment rate to be significantly below the national average, since the local economy is based on an industry whose vitality depends on a healthy national economy.

More hyperbole. The CA housing market has collapsed, and has experienced far greater drops in valuation than in MI.

And a "ghetto" house in, let's say, LA, can be had for almost nothing. Even a brand new house in a working class suburb of LA can be had for around $100,000 [[and sometimes less in the Inland Empire).

In contrast, I guarantee you cannot find a single $200,000 house in Bloomfield Hills. Heck, I would be surprised if you could find a $300,000 home [[Bloomfield City proper, not Township).

Bloomfield Hills is probably the most affluent community in Michigan, and you can find houses there that are in the same price range as houses in Watts, California -- one of the poorest areas in Los Angeles -- even after the California real estate collapse. So as far as I'm concerned, my point is proven. Percentage drops mean absolutely nothing in this discussion because I'm comparing sticker price to sticker price.

[crawford]

You're nuts. There are foreclosed homes in Bloomfield Hills that can be had for $200.000

No, there aren't. You are lying. Please show me ONE home in Bloomfield Hills [[foreclosed or not) listing for $200,000.

They just had a house on the news, that was in Bloomfield Hills that sold for $799,000 in 07 that's selling for $190,000 today.

Again, you are lying. Please show this alleged $190,000 home in Bloomfield Hills. Hell, show me a $290,000 home in Bloomfield Hills [[city proper, not township).

I have a feeling you don't even know what Bloomfield Hills encompasses. It is NOT Bloomfield Township, and it is definitely NOT all places with a Bloomfield Hills address.

Bloomfield Hills is a tiny community of about 4,000 residents, with a median family income of about $250,000, and a mean home price well over $1 million in 2008 [[and much higher in past years).

There is fairly limited housing in Bloomfield Hills for under half a million. A good-sized house on a regular lot cannot be had for under a million.

[bailey]

Bloomfield Hills is probably the most affluent community in Michigan, and you can find houses there that are in the same price range as houses in Watts, California -- one of the poorest areas in Los Angeles -- even after the California real estate collapse. So as far as I'm concerned, my point is proven. Percentage drops mean absolutely nothing in this discussion because I'm comparing sticker price to sticker price.[

Actually when the starting points were so vastly different, the percentage drop is ALL that matters to make your point. California has always [[in the time frame you are discussing) been more expensive than Michigan. Outrageously so. Ignoring that is a little silly. Sticker to sticker doesn't matter if 200k NEVER bought one a house there. The point was about "drop" in value.

But, before we get ridiculously off the point, it's pretty telling when those advocating for this proposal can offer no support for their position other than to scream racism. So, I'm open to hear how seizing assets, control and tax revenue from...say GP schools and turning it over to a single Wayne County school board would benefit GP? How does putting the likes of Reverend David Murray, or if we're talking Granholm stellar appointees, the likes of Arthur Blackwell III, in control of GPS benefit them? In other than the most immediate of short terms, how does it benefit any kid in DPS now? Somehow I still think I'll be called a racist for asking that question.

[crawford]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???? Michigan's unemployment rate has NEVER been half the national average. EVER. In 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was only slightly below the national average. It wouldn't even make sense for Michigan's unemployment rate to be significantly below the national average, since the local economy is based on an industry whose vitality depends on a healthy national economy..

MI's employment rate was under the national average for SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS, from 1994-2001. At one point in early 2000, it was 3% for MI and 5.5% for the nation, so basically half the national rate.

Bloomfield Hills is probably the most affluent community in Michigan, and you can find houses there that are in the same price range as houses in Watts, California -- one of the poorest areas in Los Angeles -- even after the California real estate collapse. ..

Please show me one. You can't do it.

There is nothing in Watts remotely comparable in price to Bloomfield Hills.

Also, not sure why you choose Watts; doesn't have close to the lowest price homes in LA. And you do know that "poorest area" does not necessarily correlate with "lowest price house", right? Most LA residents are renters, so median incomes don't necessarily have anything to do with sales prices in a given geography.

The lowest-priced homes in Southern CA are in the Inland Empire, in places like Riverside. One can buy a new home for less than $100,000.

I just looked on Trulia.com. The lowest asking price for a single family home in the City of Bloomfield Hills is a 1967 home listed for $420,000. [[515 Kingsley Trail).

[bobby wobby]

First off you would have to include Oakland and Macomb County not just Wayne County. Not allowing a kid who lives at 8 and Gratiot to go to Eastpoint ,but he could go to Canton would simply be racist .Eight mile is looked at all over the world as a racist border, and steering kids west but not north would be racist, So it will never happen, But isnt this what schools of choice was suposed to do ?

[iheartthed]

MI's employment rate was under the national average for SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS, from 1994-2001. At one point in early 2000, it was 3% for MI and 5.5% for the nation, so basically half the national rate.


Please show me one. You can't do it.

There is nothing in Watts remotely comparable in price to Bloomfield Hills.

Also, not sure why you choose Watts; doesn't have close to the lowest price homes in LA. And you do know that "poorest area" does not necessarily correlate with "lowest price house", right? Most LA residents are renters, so median incomes don't necessarily have anything to do with sales prices in a given geography.

The lowest-priced homes in Southern CA are in the Inland Empire, in places like Riverside. One can buy a new home for less than $100,000.

I just looked on Trulia.com. The lowest asking price for a single family home in the City of Bloomfield Hills is a 1967 home listed for $420,000. [[515 Kingsley Trail).

Why do you continue to twist what I said? I said that you can buy a house in a ghetto in California for what it takes to buy in a tony suburb in Metro Detroit. Pointing out that Riverside, Ca has houses listed below $100K is moot. [[And using Riverside, Ca to make a point about southern Cali is like using Ypsilanti to make a point about southeast Michigan.)

For the record, I didn't single out Bloomfield Hills, you did. I could make the same point using pretty much any of the "affluent" communities in Oakland County. But just to entertain you... Lo and behold, on Yahoo real estate I see houses in Bloomfield Hills that are priced similarly to houses in Watts. For instance:

Bloomfield Hills --
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan..._gGD1JyPpn47Qs

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan...nQ_XO4q1hn47Qs


Watts --

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Californ...rQnFuG_S5n47Qs

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Californ...6sgsvKRDdn47Qs

So as far as I'm concerned, point made.

[iheartthed]

Actually when the starting points were so vastly different, the percentage drop is ALL that matters to make your point. California has always [[in the time frame you are discussing) been more expensive than Michigan. Outrageously so. Ignoring that is a little silly. Sticker to sticker doesn't matter if 200k NEVER bought one a house there. The point was about "drop" in value.

Uh no, the percentage drop does not matter at all in the context of what we were discussing. We were discussing the attractiveness of living in Metro Detroit. My point was that if Metro Detroit were so attractive then it would ideally cost more to buy in an affluent suburb in the Detroit area than a ghetto in Los Angeles. But as I have pointed out, it does not always cost more to buy in an affluent suburb in Detroit than it does to buy in a ghetto in Los Angeles. Sure, there are some cases where it costs more to buy in suburban Detroit, but that is beside the point. The point is that you can live buy into a tony suburb [[i.e. one of the most desirable places to live locally) in Detroit for the same price as it costs to buy a house in a California ghetto.

[professorscott]

Can you all please start a "comparative real estate prices" thread, so we can go back to blathering about school systems in this one?