Rapid Bus Project for Pontiac --> Downtown Detroit Proposed

[Lowell]

The Woodward route seems the best served of any at the moment. I don't get what BRT would do to improve it. It't not like the buses could easily slip over to an expressway for for some fast clipping along areas like they could from Gratiot, Grand River and Michigan. Where would be the improvement. Am I missing something?

[animatedmartian]

The Woodward route seems the best served of any at the moment. I don't get what BRT would do to improve it. It't not like the buses could easily slip over to an expressway for for some fast clipping along areas like they could from Gratiot, Grand River and Michigan. Where would be the improvement. Am I missing something?

There's a few things that are different with BRT than typical bus service;

1) Fares are paid at the station rather than on the bus which means less time for the bus to idle
2) Buses have their own lanes, are synchronized with traffic lights, and also have a higher allowed speed limits than other traffic
3) BRT buses are usually larger and have more capacity than a standard bus
4) Is cheaper to build than light rail and therefore more flexible to build

Phoenix, Arizona has a light rail line that's roughly equivalent to the distance of Detroit to Pontiac [[~20-25 miles) and that line cost $1.4 billion dollars to build. However, BRT would likely be in the $100-$125 million dollar range for the same distance.

My personal opinion is that BRT won't generate the same returns as light rail would, but BRT routes can be easily upgraded to light rail at any point in the future so I'm not really for or against it either way.

[ghettopalmetto]

There's a few things that are different with BRT than typical bus service;

1) Fares are paid at the station rather than on the bus which means less time for the bus to idle
2) Buses have their own lanes, are synchronized with traffic lights, and also have a higher allowed speed limits than other traffic

These two characteristics could be incorporated into existing DDOT and SMART service without much effort. This would be done through a proof-of-payment fare system, where pre-purchased tickets must be validated on the bus. You don't need "rapid" transit to do things that are just common sense.

3) BRT buses are usually larger and have more capacity than a standard bus

As do the articulated buses that DDOT used to run on select routes.

4) Is cheaper to build than light rail and therefore more flexible to build


Phoenix, Arizona has a light rail line that's roughly equivalent to the distance of Detroit to Pontiac [[~20-25 miles) and that line cost $1.4 billion dollars to build. However, BRT would likely be in the $100-$125 million dollar range for the same distance.

What kind of guesswork is this based on? Cleveland's Health Line--the example that bus proponents love to parade, as it has prepaid fares and dedicated lanes--cost about $250 million for 7 miles. OR roughly $35 million/ mile. Many light rail projects have come in around that number.

And since when is "flexibility" a desirable characteristic of transit? Would you ride the bus if the route changed several times a year? If you spend $125 million for 25 miles or bus "rapid" transit [[$5 milllion/mile), you're not going to be able to afford fare prepayment, station platforms, dedicated lanes, or really much of anything other than painted white lines and a couple dozen new buses--hardly "rapid" transit.