Minnesotans are willing to pay more taxes for more prosperity

[nain rouge]

I'll harp on my point from another thread and say that if you have a poor climate, you have to invest in quality urban and suburban environments. If you look at the stats, the only economically successful low tax states have warm weather. And it makes sense. All things equal, why would you pick an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a bad climate over an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a good climate? But no, we think 15 Mile & Dequindre will sell to outsiders....

[iheartthed]

I'll harp on my point from another thread and say that if you have a poor climate, you have to invest in quality urban and suburban environments. If you look at the stats, the only economically successful low tax states have warm weather. And it makes sense. All things equal, why would you pick an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a bad climate over an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a good climate? But no, we think 15 Mile & Dequindre will sell to outsiders....

I think investment has a lot more to do with it than weather. With the exception of California, all of the highest earning states are in cold weather locations. There is probably a higher correlation between taxes and prosperity than climate and prosperity.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think investment has a lot more to do with it than weather. With the exception of California, all of the highest earning states are in cold weather locations. There is probably a higher correlation between taxes and prosperity than climate and prosperity.

Weather not doubt has something to do with prosperity. One strives for prosperity more when you need to pay the heating bill than when sitting on a beach in Mexico.

However I don't think the climate mattered. What mattered was history and transportation. US Wealth was from european trade initially. Ports mattered. St. Lawrence mattered. Canals mattered. As time went on, Railroads mattered. Waterways and rail lines probably tell the story more than climate.

Why north and not south? Closer to Europe. Closer to where we landed [[well not my 20thC immigrant family). Industry required people, and required water. You could find some water down south -- but water comes from snow. And snow is cold.

[animatedmartian]

I'll harp on my point from another thread and say that if you have a poor climate, you have to invest in quality urban and suburban environments. If you look at the stats, the only economically successful low tax states have warm weather. And it makes sense. All things equal, why would you pick an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a bad climate over an area with bland or ugly neighborhoods and a good climate? But no, we think 15 Mile & Dequindre will sell to outsiders....

There's no such thing as a good climate. The Southeast is humid as a monkey's butt during the summer and the Southwest is as dry and arid as the Sahara. Not to mention massive droughts in recent years.

Also, quite a few southern states handout a lot of subsidies to lure businesses. In that sense, those states have a good business climate, but it has nothing to do with weather.

[313WX]

There's no such thing as a good climate. The Southeast is humid as a monkey's butt during the summer and the Southwest is as dry and arid as the Sahara. Not to mention massive droughts in recent years.

Also, quite a few southern states handout a lot of subsidies to lure businesses. In that sense, those states have a good business climate, but it has nothing to do with weather.

While an individual climate preference is subjective, many more people seem to disagree with you. Tons of retirees for example move to the southeast and southeast every so often simply because of the weather.

But in any event, I agree with what nain rouge said. The "Pure Michigan" collectivist mindset can only get the state so far in terms of being a healthy and attractive place to live or do business.

[animatedmartian]

While an individual climate preference is subjective, many more people seem to disagree with you. Tons of retirees for example move to the southeast and southeast every so often simply because of the weather.

The part that confuses me is how corporations are in anyway similar to the motivations of retirees. Most corporations exist in huge air conditioned buildings and while warmer weather might be the enjoyable climate of its employees, I don't think GM would make record breaking profits just because there were more sunny days.

[313WX]

The part that confuses me is how corporations are in anyway similar to the motivations of retirees. Most corporations exist in huge air conditioned buildings and while warmer weather might be the enjoyable climate of its employees, I don't think GM would make record breaking profits just because there were more sunny days.

But see, it is about the people who work for these corporations.

A corporation will have to consider if the people they want to attract will actually want to live in the climate where they're based. How many companies do you think would be able to recruit competitive talent if they were based in a place like Alaska?

Besides that, for all of the productivity lost in Michigan during the snowy months or the extra money spent to heat buildings for their employees on cold winter days, that same productivity can be gained and that save money can be saved in a state that has less active weather and is warmer.

And the GM example is different. Michigan, since Henry Ford pioneered the auto industry here, has always been home to the talent auto companies want to hire. It's pretty much a case of homerism.

[emu steve]

But see, it is about the people who work for these corporations.

A corporation will have to consider if the people they want to attract will actually want to live in the climate where they're based. How many companies do you think would be able to recruit competitive talent if they were based in a place like Alaska?

Besides that, for all of the productivity lost in Michigan during the snowy months or the extra money spent to heat buildings for their employees on cold winter days, that same productivity can be gained and that save money can be saved in a state that has less active weather and is warmer.

And the GM example is different. Michigan, since Henry Ford pioneered the auto industry here, has always been home to the talent auto companies want to hire. It's pretty much a case of homerism.

Lot of truth to your points.

Now that we've moved on from industrial to a 'knowledge' economy, a state like N. Carolina [[with a pleasant climate and a lot of top universities which compete very well with those in MI) can compete.

A startup corporation can set up in S.E. MI and pick up talent from UofM and other schools while a N.C. startup has access to Duke, UNC, NCSU, etc. talent.

[ghettopalmetto]

Lot of truth to your points.

Now that we've moved on from industrial to a 'knowledge' economy, a state like N. Carolina [[with a pleasant climate and a lot of top universities which compete very well with those in MI) can compete.

A startup corporation can set up in S.E. MI and pick up talent from UofM and other schools while a N.C. startup has access to Duke, UNC, NCSU, etc. talent.

North Carolina is "pleasant"? Maybe in February! Certainly not today!

This thread is so disgustingly naive, it's not even funny. If climate had a rats ass to do with anything, New York, Boston, and Chicago would have decamped decades ago. I say let the Southern states enjoy their amazing Social Security-based economies. The people Michigan needs are the ones who have 40 years of high earnings ahead of them--not folks on fixed incomes.

[Hermod]

While an individual climate preference is subjective, many more people seem to disagree with you. Tons of retirees for example move to the southeast and southeast every so often simply because of the weather.

But in any event, I agree with what nain rouge said. The "Pure Michigan" collectivist mindset can only get the state so far in terms of being a healthy and attractive place to live or do business.

There is an old joke about an autoworker retiring in Detroit. When he was asked what he was going to do next, he said he was going to tie a snow shovel to the roof of his car and start driving south. When he stopped for gas or to eat and someone asked him "what the hell is that thing on the top of your car?" that is where he was going to live.