Coronavirus: Threat Beyond Politics [For Political Discussions of CoV]

[Bigdd]

There is actually no scientific data that shows we should be wearing masks.

MANY studies have been done on the subject, studying Influenza [[which has larger droplet size than Covid), as well as SARS, Swine Flu etc, and they typically show some benefit from the use of new N95 masks,.. but no benefit of cloth masks,.. and little to no benefit to using surgical masks.

So unless you put on a new surgical mask every time,.. and TIGHTLY bend it over your nose etc, and never have it down off your nose,... etc, etc, etc,... it's a waste of time.

To be effective, you want to have a NEW N95 each time you put on a mask.

Here's a study that compiled the results of a lot of studies on the subject.

And an excerpt from the conclusion section. Where they found N95 masks were effective [[to some degree) against SARS, but not H1N1, and none of the cloth masks were recommended without being replaced constantly or properly sterilized. And that re-using cloth masks without sterilization [[like most all of us ARE doing) actually FACILITATED the transmission of pathogens.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

Overall, N95 respirators "may" convey greater protection, but universal use throughout a work shift is likely to be less acceptable due to greater discomfort. Our analysis confirms the effectiveness of medical masks and respirators against SARS. Disposable, cotton, or paper masks are not recommended.

The confirmed effectiveness of medical masks is crucially important for lower-resource and emergency settings lacking access to N95 respirators. In such cases, single-use medical masks are preferable to cloth masks, for which there is no evidence of protection and which might facilitate transmission of pathogens when used repeatedly without adequate sterilization [8].

We found no clear benefit of either medical masks or N95 respirators against pH1N1.

[Maof]

https://media.tenor.com/images/56884...62e9/tenor.gif

[oladub]

You know, Oladub, at this point I would settle just for having people wear masks indoors, which even you acknowledge is effective. But that's a bridge too far for you Republicans.

Trump: People wear masks just to make me look bad. There was also the numerous instances where Trump flouted local guidelines requiring masks, such as when he toured the Ford plant in Ypsilanti and didn't wear a mask inside as required by Executive mandate. Or the time he toured the factory in Maine that made nasal swabs for COVID testing kits and the factory had to throw away all the swabs they made during his visit.

Meanwhile in Georgia, Brian Kemp has overridden all local mask mandates in the entire state.

Meanwhile in Florida, Ron DeSantis steadfastly refuses to issue a mask mandateeven though his state is LEADING the nation in COVID.

Oklahoma Governor who tested positive for COVID-19 says he does not regret not wearing a mask in public.

Meanwhile here in Michigan, Republican state legislators are refusing to wear masks during hearings, ostensibly as a form of political protest against Gretchen Whitmer's mandate.

What do you mean "even you acknowledge [[masks are) effective". I've been supporting masks on this forum since this started. Stereotyping doesn't make you look smart. Even your favorite 'elderly white man' Joe Biden delivers most of his speeches without a mask.

3.5 of your 5 links have to do with Republican individuals who didn't wear face masks. You have to think in broader terms than blaming individual Republicans though. What legal or behavioral changes applying to the other 327M of us will be required to reduce the spread of CV-19? I mentioned Walmart's mask initiative. I was hoping for suggestions along that line. I agree that Gov. Kemp shouldn't have overridden local mask mandates although I don't know if Georgia governors have the power to overrule local mandates.

[Gistok]

Why do you need another poster to hold your little hand?

Yes I witness it everyday,I am not hiding while being a keyboard warrior thinking I am in everybody else’s head.

So you ask me a reply in a personal manner or with a personal expirence,then you look for Gnome who you know damn well is on a rampage when ever I post a personal expirence,but have zero problems when anybody else posts a personal experience.

Not only is that approach moronic,it is typical of the left and it’s speech suppression tactics.

Anybody with a 1/3 of a brain can tell that it is not normal.

Legoland lists its target age group of 6-9 you should probably stick with your age group if you are going to act like it.

More insipid talk...

Yes Gnome is a friend from the DYES picnic days... nice seeing your ad hominem fallacies... one can tell your lack of logic in your random deflective comments... especially directed at those you don't agree with politically.

As for LEGO... more ignorance on your part... 20% of all LEGO revenue comes from adult collectors... be they David Beckham, David Radcliffe, Britney Spears, Chris Pratt, or Norman Mailer or 5 million other adult collectors. But like with everything else, you just like to obfuscate your logic with non-related comments. Nice try though...

[rb336]

There is actually no scientific data that shows we should be wearing masks.

Instead of a 3 year old meta-study that spends more space on the limitations of the study than discussing conclusions, how about a current study specifically pertaining to Covid-19?

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...aff.2020.00818

"There is a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after mandating facial covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after signing the order. Specifically, the daily case rate declines by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, and 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively. All of these declines are statistically significant [[p<0.05, or less). In contrast, the pre-trends in COVID-19 case growth rates are small and statistically insignificant."

[oladub]

True or false, you are safer from COVID-19 in New York City today then you are in Houston TX. True or false?

Probably true. After all, Houston is a Democratic city prone to more crime and CV infections than most of Texas. My numbers though had to do with comparing state rates rather than those of two Democratic cities.

How sweet of you to assume that Texas will remain steady at 131 deaths per day and won't get worse. Care to guess how many deaths were reported yesterday in Texas? If you had to guess, would you guess more or less than 131?

Here I'll answer for you, 154. And yes, if you were wondering, that's a new record for Texas, shattering the previous record of 131 reported deaths that they set...day before yesterday. See a trend there? Do you? How's that trend looking? Good or bad?

I did not "assume that Texas will remain steady at 131 deaths per day and won't get worse". That was the number you threw at us. I used your 131 number for Texas and ZERO for New York State. I don't see you flapping around complaining that I used zero for New York State. But let's do the math for 154 and keep New York State unrealistically constant at zero. It will be 293 days before Texas catches up with the Democratic killing field of New York at that rate. However, if the current rate of 33 people dying a day continues in NY State were included instead of zero [[I've stopped being charitable to you), it would take 431 days before the per capita death rate of Texas catches up with the per capita death rate of New York State. Go ahead and tell us bout what a great job Gov. Cuomo did. I'll do it.
NEW YORK STATE'S CV-19 DEATH RATE IS 1,670/M. ONLY ONE OTHER STATE OR COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS A HIGHER DEATH RATE. THAT'S NEW JERSEY WITH 1,769/M. NO COUNTRY ON EARTH HAS A HIGHER DEATH RATE THAN GOV. CUOMO'S NY. THAT IS SAN MARINO WITH A PER CAPITA DEATH RATE OF 1,268/M. NY IS NUMBER ONE. That's what you are trying to sell us as good government. Refresher: Texas' per capita death rate is 125/M.

[aj3647]

What do you mean "even you acknowledge [[masks are) effective". I've been supporting masks on this forum since this started. Stereotyping doesn't make you look smart. Even your favorite 'elderly white man' Joe Biden delivers most of his speeches without a mask.

Yeah when there's no one within 6 feet of him and he's typically outdoors. And what are you getting miffed about? I acknowledged that you acknowledge that masks are effective, how is that stereotyping? You know, instead of continuing to butt heads with me, why don't call out Bigdd who posted right after you and said that masks AREN'T effective and refuted everything you just said?

But no, you don't do that, you've never once called out your ideological brethren here when they post anti-science garbage and lies on COVID-19. Somehow their posts escape your radar...but not mine. You'll pick a fight with me every day but you won't say BOO to the Right Wing anti-science conspiracy theorists who post nonsense about COVID-19. Why don't you apply your efforts to those here who don't believe masks work?

Meanwhile, Florida just reported its numbers for today. 156 new deaths reported in 24 hours. A new state record.

[Bigdd]

Meanwhile, Florida just reported its numbers for today. 156 new deaths reported in 24 hours. A new state record.

A "STATE" record.

Of course that's only 19% of New York's record of about 806 deaths in a day.

Floridians have to be thanking their lucky stars that they don't have Como as their governor.

[Bigdd]

Instead of a 3 year old meta-study that spends more space on the limitations of the study than discussing conclusions, how about a current study specifically pertaining to Covid-19?

"There is a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after mandating facial covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after signing the order. Specifically, the daily case rate declines by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, and 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively. All of these declines are statistically significant [[p<0.05, or less). In contrast, the pre-trends in COVID-19 case growth rates are small and statistically insignificant."

Sure. I get that. A number of detailed scientific studies specifically aimed at Covid would be nice.

Besides the 1.2% - 1.7% reduction they think the masks may have caused, they go on to say at the end "...requiring use of face masks in public might help in reducing COVID-19 spread."

So they think masks may be good for a 0.011- 0.017 reduction, and "Might" help reduce spread.

OK.

Is that enough to be mandating masks? And fining people $500, and issuing misdemeanor violations, and permanently closing businesses by taking away their business licenses?

Hmmm,.. sounds a little bit Tyrannical to me, but I obey our governor's orders, and wear one when I go in a place. We're to obey our rulers.



As to why I choose older studies,... it's to rule out as much politics as possible. This has become a political football, with the Dem's especially using it to batter the president to try to win an election.

Using studies from 2015, 2009 etc rules that out, and allows us a little bit more confidence in the various conclusions.


My link and yours taken together,.. the case for mandating masks seem a bit weak. I'm certainly not against people wearing them, especially if one is in a vulnerable sector of the population,.. but the notion that "we all know masks are great" etc is a bit much.

There's no data out there anywhere that even hints that masks could reduce Covid spread by 5%, 20%, 50% etc.

[Zacha341]

^^^ It's all a bit much. Just for extra care I wear a mask. I have different ones for various risk situations: medical or respirator level n95 for certain situations, the thinner paper n95i or whatever version for a fast run into the store. The fabric etc for when going out for a walk or cycling...

I feel it must make some difference as they're used in hospitals. Some even use bandanas still. I've seen people getting pretty testy here and there about masks. Just think when they demand everyone take vaccine!

[Wheels]

^^^ It's all a bit much. Just for extra care I wear a mask. I have different ones for various risk situations: medical or respirator level n95 for certain situations, the thinner paper n95i or whatever version for a fast run into the store. The fabric etc for when going out for a walk or cycling...

I feel it must make some difference as they're used in hospitals. Some even use bandanas still. I've seen people getting pretty testy here and there about masks. Just think when they demand everyone take vaccine!

And oh bye the way the vaccine has a little chip in it just to help identify who has had the vaccine. Don’t worry we won’t use it for anything else!

[aj3647]

And oh bye the way the vaccine has a little chip in it just to help identify who has had the vaccine. Don’t worry we won’t use it for anything else!

I don't even know why I bother asking, but... source? Because this is a debunked conspiracy theory.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/3171405001/

[Bigdd]

I don't even know why I bother asking, but... source? Because this is a debunked conspiracy theory.

And why bother?

Whether or not someone has had it will already be in the national health database, CDC database, HHS database and insurance databases,.... [[The HIPPA privacy elimination act having already eliminated our medical privacy).

And the Enhanced I.D's we're all required to have this year all have RFID chips in them, [[like our passports and most people's Debit cards have had for more than a decade.)

[Wheels]

I don't even know why I bother asking, but... source? Because this is a debunked conspiracy theory.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/3171405001/

You need a source for a vaccine that you know dam well doesn’t exist yet? JEEEEZZZZZ!

I’ll let you know when we finish with the implant portion.

[Richard]

^^^ It's all a bit much. Just for extra care I wear a mask. I have different ones for various risk situations: medical or respirator level n95 for certain situations, the thinner paper n95i or whatever version for a fast run into the store. The fabric etc for when going out for a walk or cycling...

I feel it must make some difference as they're used in hospitals. Some even use bandanas still. I've seen people getting pretty testy here and there about masks. Just think when they demand everyone take vaccine!

you just have to do what you feel is best for you.

Its spreading in Fl,95% of the people I see entering a business and in a business wears a mask,wal-mart was requiring it over 30 days ago.

What gets me are the public statements that draw so much attention.

I went to a bar last weekend,nobody was social distancing,I got the rona virus,shut the bars down to stop the spread.

Why did they go to the bar in the first place,they could have left if they were that concerned.

How exactly does one pinpoint the exact time and place where they caught it?

First it was fine or shut the business,now it is fine the individual but most businesses will not let you enter unless you have a mask,a few of my commercial suppliers do not require a mask,just the 6’ rule.

Even people wearing masks have become infected,even hospital staff that were fully PPE protected caught it,I think if you are going to catch it,you will and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

The one thing I do know is,traffic here is insane,it’s like rush hour all day long,where is everybody going and what are they doing,I miss the unlimited speed ability with little traffic of 3 months ago.

They say listen to the science and anybody that does not is a moron,how come nobody listens to the science?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RBlyh96yL7Q

Liberty University has filed a 10 million defamation suit against the NYT

NYT wrote several articles claiming Liberty university allowed students to return after spring break to the campus and many became infected with the corona virus because of it.

Problem is,nobody that returned tested positive.

[Richard]

States such as Minnesota, Nebraska and Montana, which the pandemic has touched relatively lightly, are getting more than $300,000 per reported COVID-19 case in the $30 billion, according to a Kaiser Health News analysis.
On the other hand, New York, the worst-hit state, would receive only $12,000 per case. Florida is getting $132,000 per case. KHN relied on a state breakdown provided to the House Ways and Means Committee by HHS along with COVID-19 cases tabulated by The New York Times.

https://khn.org/news/furor-erupts-bi...-not-covid-19/

People are also reporting that they are being notified as being tested positive after signing up for the test but missing the appointment.

[aj3647]

You need a source for a vaccine that you know dam well doesn’t exist yet? JEEEEZZZZZ!

I’ll let you know when we finish with the implant portion.

It doesn't exist yet but you KNOW it will have a tracking implant in it?

I think those Clorox injections might have damaged your brain.

[Wheels]

It doesn't exist yet but you KNOW it will have a tracking implant in it?

I think those Clorox injections might have damaged your brain.

I forgot narrow minded people with blinders on tripping on their own ineptitude don’t understand a little rhetoric!

[Dan Wesson]

^^^ It's all a bit much. Just for extra care I wear a mask. I have different ones for various risk situations: medical or respirator level n95 for certain situations, the thinner paper n95i or whatever version for a fast run into the store. The fabric etc for when going out for a walk or cycling...

I feel it must make some difference as they're used in hospitals. Some even use bandanas still. I've seen people getting pretty testy here and there about masks. Just think when they demand everyone take vaccine!

You've got N-95 masks? Were you thinking ahead?

[jcole]

Hmmm, seems like these are the things our Governor did months ago...

Task force report says 18 states in coronavirus 'red zone' should roll back reopening

The "red zone" is defined in the 359-page report as "those core-based statistical areas [[CBSAs) and counties that during the last week reported both new cases above 100 per 100,000 population, and a diagnostic test positivity result above 10%."

The report outlines measures counties in the red zone should take. It encourages residents to "wear a mask at all times outside the home and maintain physical distance." And it recommends that public officials "close bars and gyms" and "limit social gatherings to 10 people or fewer," which would mean rolling back reopening provisions in these places.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/polit...&utm_term=link

[aj3647]

I forgot narrow minded people with blinders on tripping on their own ineptitude don’t understand a little rhetoric!

If you want to spout bullshit and then not back it up when asked to do so, well that's on you, Corky.

And oh bye the way the vaccine has a little chip in it just to help identify who has had the vaccine. Don’t worry we won’t use it for anything else!

[Zacha341]

NYT has a narrative they must ADHERE to in many cases. Fauci is a medical politician or he'd not been around in the first place as long as he has. He goes back to the AIDS onset, many forget. The MD qualification has advantages but then some are using it push an agenda and we know that all that has been medically sanctioned at one point, is condemned the next...

Mostly I say stay as healthy as possible. Which helps keep your immune high for much. Tune in and yet tune out some of the statements and opinions.

you just have to do what you feel is best for you.

Its spreading in Fl, 95% of the people I see entering a business and in a business wears a mask, wal-mart was requiring it over 30 days ago.

What gets me are the public statements that draw so much attention.

I went to a bar last weekend, nobody was social distancing,I got the rona virus, shut the bars down to stop the spread.

Why did they go to the bar in the first place, they could have left if they were that concerned...

...NYT wrote several articles claiming Liberty university allowed students to return after spring break to the campus and many became infected with the corona virus because of it.

Problem is, nobody that returned tested positive.

[Zacha341]

Just a couple. They're hard to come by. One work site I was on had them. Then there's the dollar store junk. Who knows 100%...

I'm just trying to err on caution. I know I would additionally wear a shied if I were flying. But Delta is at least still doing every other seat spacing. What times to live in! Right?!

You've got N-95 masks? Were you thinking ahead?

[oladub]

A "STATE" record.

Of course that's only 19% of New York's record of about 806 deaths in a day.

Floridians have to be thanking their lucky stars that they don't have Como as their governor.

Good point. Actually there should be a 10% adjustment and more of a spread because Florida has 10% more people than Texas. New York used to have the highest population but has slipped to #4 because people keep leaving. The equivalent on a per capita basis would be comparing the 156 of one day Florida deaths that aj mentioned [[post 1282) with 889 [[806x10%) adjusted one day of deaths New York experienced and aj seems ok with. Cuomo could have beat his own record if he had all the nursing home in Florida to infect. New York's 889 is 570% Florida's record 156 daily deaths. Oh, and New York's 1,672 CV deaths per 1M population exceeds Florida's 218 CV deaths per 1M population by 770%.

[Bigdd]

New York's 1,672 CV deaths per 1M population exceeds Florida's 218 CV deaths per 1M population by 770%.

Great points,... though that 770% will drop slightly as Florida is now at THEIR peak death rate [[albeit a low one). For sure it won't get anywhere near Como's death tally.

The real sad thing about AJ's position is that he never seems to acknowledge or mourn the loss of the tens of thousands of Dems and seniors that were unnecessarily killed in NY. He then glory's when a purple or red state is having trouble.

These are our fellow Americans we're talking about.