How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

[Mackinaw]

Look, you're not going to get anyone official to tell you how many yuppies are moving in [[at least until the census, when you can look at demographic and educational-background breakdowns), but there should be a source on population inflow to the central city, including downtown, midtown, Lafayette Pk/E.Market, and Corktown. While the inflow is not as monolithic in demographic as some believe, it is generally young, and these numbers will answer your question.

What we're starting to see, and it's really good news, is some other neighborhoods further from the central city gain new residents, like West Village.

My anecdotes are reporting better things than yours.

But people will come and then go because city living might not be for them. There is a noticeable flow of young, often privileged state-school-educated metro Detroit youth to Chicago or DC-- but only certain, safe parts of Chicago or DC, where they live in fear of and with considerable prejudice toward other areas where yuppies haven't touched. You can't really have that sheltered existence anywhere in Detroit. Detroit is still for the tough and/or open-minded, and particularly for those who gain street smarts quickly. I am honestly okay with that, as the Chicago and D.C. model still promotes too much prejudice, segregation, and sheltering. If people move to Detroit trying to really dig in and be Detroiters, not just people existing in a place for the sake of trendiness, I think we'll be much better off. And we'll be even better off if, as Nain alludes to, we bring the outer-neighborhood outflow down to a more normal trickle.

[e.p.3]

1. A yuppy is a young, urban profession. You know, 22 to 40 [[?), college degree, real job.

2. Nobody has provided one piece of evidence to prove there is an influx of yuppy residents to these neighborhoods. The drivers license has nothing to do with census or independent data. Furthermore, it's a misdemeanor to not change your address. I've never been in a business meeting where I closed the deal without real data. Anecdotal optics and excuses [[e.g. drivers licenses aren't changed??!) don't pass the smell test.

[313WX]

2. Nobody has provided one piece of evidence to prove there is an influx of yuppy residents to these neighborhoods. The drivers license has nothing to do with census or independent data. Furthermore, it's a misdemeanor to not change your address. I've never been in a business meeting where I closed the deal without real data. Anecdotal optics and excuses [[e.g. drivers licenses aren't changed??!) don't pass the smell test.

Someone believes there's now enough demand to renovate the Strathmoor apartments and Broderick Tower [[both of which are huge) that have been vacant for years, for one.

Also, Whole Foods wouldn't have opened down there [[even with the generous tax credits) if there wouldn't be enough customer demand.

[e.p.3]

Someone believes there's now enough demand to renovate the Strathmoor apartments and Broderick Tower [[both of which are huge) that have been vacant for years, for one.

Also, Whole Foods wouldn't have opened down there [[even with the generous tax credits) if there wouldn't be enough customer demand.

Demand != subsidies to build something != influx of yuppies.

[drjeff]

Demand != subsidies to build something != influx of yuppies.

Who do you think is occupying all the rental units in downtown, including many that have opened up in the past 2 years? Occupancy is near 100%. Are these all poor black people paying the highest rents in the city? Your criticism doesn't pass the smell test either.

[e.p.3]

Almost 40 posts in and no data. Just a bunch of excuses. With all due respect, I don't need to read summaries of every Freep Press or Detroit News hype piece, I asked for some real data.

Are you guys really suggesting that whatever data exists is wrong because there are thousands of college-educated professionals committing insurance fraud and risking misdemeanor infractions for failing to accurately represent address on their DL?

[313WX]

Are you guys really suggesting that whatever data exists is wrong because there are thousands of college-educated professionals committing insurance fraud and risking misdemeanor infractions for failing to accurately represent address on their DL?

Is that too hard for you to believe?

[dtowncitylover]

Almost 40 posts in and no data. Just a bunch of excuses. With all due respect, I don't need to read summaries of every Freep Press or Detroit News hype piece, I asked for some real data.

Are you guys really suggesting that whatever data exists is wrong because there are thousands of college-educated professionals committing insurance fraud and risking misdemeanor infractions for failing to accurately represent address on their DL?

What an arrogant post. I would say that there's no data because it hasn't been collected yet. If you want to do it, be my guest; we're not your personal Census office.

And yes, that could be the case. Extremely plausible and not far fetched. Maybe you should call the cops or something?

[e.p.3]

Who do you think is occupying all the rental units in downtown, including many that have opened up in the past 2 years? Occupancy is near 100%. Are these all poor black people paying the highest rents in the city? Your criticism doesn't pass the smell test either.

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms. If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not. This is what booming reads like:

"In the next 24 months, virtually every block in a one-mile stretch of 14th is slated to gain a new or renovated building containing residential units and ground-floor retail space. When the dust clears, the strip will have more than 1,200 additional housing units and more than 85,000 square feet of additional retail space."

http://nytimes.com/2012/05/02/reales...evelopers.html

[BankruptcyGuy]

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms. If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not.

That is categorically false. Perhaps a little research on your behalf is warranted before making statements like that.

[mwilbert]

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms.

This is just wrong.

If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not. This is what booming reads like:

"In the next 24 months, virtually every block in a one-mile stretch of 14th is slated to gain a new or renovated building containing residential units and ground-floor retail space. When the dust clears, the strip will have more than 1,200 additional housing units and more than 85,000 square feet of additional retail space."


http://nytimes.com/2012/05/02/reales...evelopers.html

I agree with you here. What Midtown and Downtown are doing is improving, not booming. Rents in DC are high enough to allow unsubsidized construction. Rents in Detroit have not been, and may not be now, so supply is constrained regardless of how much demand there may be at current prices. Hence no boom. When rents reach that point, which it looks like will happen fairly soon, then we will see whether there is sufficient demand at the required prices to have an actual boom. I tend to think not, but I do expect the population of greater downtown to grow faster than it has as higher prices make it possible to create more housing units.

Consider that if you doubled the population of the 7.2, that would basically mean that instead of having maybe 0.7% of the metro population, it would have 1.4% of the metro and maybe 9% of the city's population. That would be a dramatic change for that area, but it wouldn't be any kind of radical shift in the broader scheme of things. A moderate change in the perceived attractiveness of the center city could easily cause a shift that size, especially in conjunction with an apparent shift in preferences for more urban living. Will that actually happen? I don't know, too many unpredictable factors. But I think it is safe to say that so far the effect is small.

[Bham1982]

Who do you think is occupying all the rental units in downtown, including many that have opened up in the past 2 years? Occupancy is near 100%. Are these all poor black people paying the highest rents in the city? Your criticism doesn't pass the smell test either.

Rental vacancy rates nationwide are usually around 5%. In Detroit, they're much worse.

And, no the Freep artcles breathlessly claiming "near 100% downtown occupancy" are not accurate. If they were, that would be indicative of normalcy, not some strong demand for new housing.

[nain rouge]

But what makes you think Detroiters' do not want that life style again.

I spent the first 25 years of my life in Warren, and last year split between Detroit and Virginia. The thing I've realized is, Detroit is such a fight. And it's heartbreaking to see that in many other cities, what people are fighting so hard for in Detroit is just there for the taking, low hanging fruit plucked with almost no effort.

Detroit has - and I hate personifying cities, governments, and countries - a messianic complex. There's an element of magical thinking in people's opinions of the city. When in reality, it was just a city built like all the others in America, then dragged into a death spiral by a combination of prejudice and disinvestment. When I look upon Detroit, I see people scavenging among ruins for items, ideas, and feelings that they can reassemble into a self-confirming, illusory world of their own device.

What I don't see is a living, breathing city. What's an industrial giant without industry? A hollow shell that can only be animated again through the power of imagination. Old Detroit is gone. Long gone.

You know, in America, you're supposed to take safety for granted. America is littered with urban cities that, compared to Detroit, are thriving and safe to an unimaginable degree. So why Detroit? That's the question I ask. There are places you can live where the spirit of what Detroit once was still lives.

Sometimes cities die. If you look throughout history, few have survived. Even the Romans knew when it was time to quit the Forum and let it be.

I don't doubt that one day they'll have successfully built a great urban theme park upon the Detroit streets. But to me, it's not Detroit. What's left of that old city is but a few dying embers. The Motor City trampled the Paris of the Midwest. Now, disinvestment has trampled the Motor City.

It's a brave new world in Detroit.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Rental vacancy rates nationwide are usually around 5%. In Detroit, they're much worse.

And, no the Freep artcles breathlessly claiming "near 100% downtown occupancy" are not accurate. If they were, that would be indicative of normalcy, not some strong demand for new housing.

Midtown Detroit publishes an every-so-often survey of mid- and downtown apartment rental vacancy. As of their last report, occupancy was 97.1%. That is consistent with anecdotal evidence I have heard from practitioners [[landlords, bankers, etc.) as well.

[313WX]

Demand != subsidies to build something != influx of yuppies.

I don't necessarily agree with subsidizing this growth and these developments, but if Detroit has any chance of survival, what else do you suggest we do to make the city an attractive place to live again?

[dtowncitylover]

1. A yuppy is a young, urban profession. You know, 22 to 40 [[?), college degree, real job.

2. Nobody has provided one piece of evidence to prove there is an influx of yuppy residents to these neighborhoods. The drivers license has nothing to do with census or independent data. Furthermore, it's a misdemeanor to not change your address. I've never been in a business meeting where I closed the deal without real data. Anecdotal optics and excuses [[e.g. drivers licenses aren't changed??!) don't pass the smell test.

I'm apprehensive about responding to you because in the dozen or so posts you have posted I can already tell you hold the antagonistic and old school suburb vs. city views.

You say anecdotal evidence doesn't pass your smell test yet you give one in your initial post. The we give examples of the Broderick Tower, Whole Foods, The Auburn, and you disregard them.

Go downtown on an average week day and tell me no one is down there. 5-6 years ago Woodward was still dead at 1 pm, I would beg to differ now. Many of the Merchant Row buildings are being used now. 1528 Woodward, Moosejaw, DIME, D:Hive, Somerset sometimes are truly pioneers along that strip. There is an influx of residents and workers that hasn't been officially documented because 2010 Census was too close to the turning point.

[313WX]

There is an influx of residents and workers that hasn't been officially documented because 2010 Census was too close to the turning point.

You were right on in your post up to this point.

If these people moving downtown are still using suburban addresses, their influx will never be officially documented.

[noggin]

You were right on in your post up to this point.

If these people moving downtown are still using suburban addresses, their influx will never be officially documented.

With the high cost of Detroit auto insurance and income tax, I would agree that many of these young people are voting or being counted in any census data. They most likely would have an outstate or suburban "official address".

[dtowncitylover]

You were right on in your post up to this point.

If these people moving downtown are still using suburban addresses, their influx will never be officially documented.

Haha, yes and I would agree. I would say that they might love living in the city but know it could be any day or week when they decide they've had enough and move out. I don't blame them necessarily. I would rather live in a neighborhood than in the city center. But that's because I like to have yardage and a house or at least a brownstone [[wishful thinking here I know). I think many of these kids do too, but when they get sick of the apartment/loft living they have to move past 8 Mile because of crime and schools and many neighborhoods are predominately black and they don't know how to handle it growing up in white bread America . I've heard that in many neighborhoods there is a level of distrust towards whites [[can't say I blame them either). I would love to live there, but I don't want to be eyed as the carpetbagger. Now, I know this excludes N. Rosedale Park, EEV, the tony neighborhoods.

[DetroitPlanner]

1. A yuppy is a young, urban profession. You know, 22 to 40 [[?), college degree, real job.

2. Nobody has provided one piece of evidence to prove there is an influx of yuppy residents to these neighborhoods. The drivers license has nothing to do with census or independent data. Furthermore, it's a misdemeanor to not change your address. I've never been in a business meeting where I closed the deal without real data. Anecdotal optics and excuses [[e.g. drivers licenses aren't changed??!) don't pass the smell test.

That was 30 years ago.