City Audit Report

[Detroitnerd]

I KNOW, I IKNOW, incompetence?

Incompetence, corruption, criminal misuse of the public trust, sure -- all of that.

But isn't the underlying cause the way we've organized the metro, with a poor city surrounded by defensive cantons, all vying for a dwindling share of have-somes and have-mores?

[JBMcB]

But isn't the underlying cause the way we've organized the metro, with a poor city surrounded by defensive cantons, all vying for a dwindling share of have-somes and have-mores?

I don't think so - even relatively successful cities and metro regions have pensions that are pretty screwed up.

It seems to me to be a general attitude of those in government that what they do doesn't really matter. There will always be a bailout, there will always be more money, there will always be assistance of some kind.

Why audit anything? Why adhere to generally accepted accounting principals? Why follow any sort of best practices when handling money? That's just more work, and politically dangerous if anything bad turns up. If anything goes wrong, they'll just get some more money from somewhere.

It's the public version of the too big to fail mentality.

[Wesley Mouch]

Incompetence, corruption, criminal misuse of the public trust, sure -- all of that.

But isn't the underlying cause the way we've organized the metro, with a poor city surrounded by defensive cantons, all vying for a dwindling share of have-somes and have-mores?

I'm with you on regionalization, but I don't think anyone 'organized' anything. Nobody shipped people in rail cars to a ghetto or work camp. It was all voluntary.

The citizens made a collective decision to change the priorities of the city -- combined with some court ordered remedies to imagined problems such as segregation of schools [[where there no doubt was a problem -- but can anyone imagine that cross-district bussing is a wise solution?)

The citizens voices were heard -- and we see the result. Still, when a leader like Snyder tries to work on schools he's met with a chorus of 'stay away -- we'll solve this ourselves with the same methods we're been using'.

Nobody imposed the chaos. Wasn't 'organized'. It was the natural result of the actions of citizens. Now how do we change the structure to get better results? Sure -- regionalization should play a large part.

[jaytheory]

[QUOTE=Wesley Mouch;404276]I'm with you on regionalization, but I don't think anyone 'organized' anything. Nobody shipped people in rail cars to a ghetto or work camp. It was all voluntary.]

Voluntary sure, market driven by external factors and internal factored that coerced certain things to happen and certain actors to act a certain way definitely.

[Detroitnerd]

Whether it's de jure or de facto, collectively, we have established one of the most income-segregated metropolitan regions in the world. I can understand why some people on this board would back way up and say, "We? We didn't choose to be so racially and income stratified! That wasn't conscious!" But that's the way it is, so, whether it was one overarching plan or the result of millions of individual decisions, that's what happened.

And the end result, I believe, is the underlying cause of having a slum city. Then why should we act all surprised when a slum city is run by crooked politicians? The majority of those of us with the means to do so looked away for years and figured, "It's their problem now; let them deal with it." So why then all this shock about a slum being poorly managed?

[Wesley Mouch]

Whether it's de jure or de facto, collectively, we have established one of the most income-segregated metropolitan regions in the world. I can understand why some people on this board would back way up and say, "We? We didn't choose to be so racially and income stratified! That wasn't conscious!" But that's the way it is, so, whether it was one overarching plan or the result of millions of individual decisions, that's what happened.

And the end result, I believe, is the underlying cause of having a slum city. Then why should we act all surprised when a slum city is run by crooked politicians? The majority of those of us with the means to do so looked away for years and figured, "It's their problem now; let them deal with it." So why then all this shock about a slum being poorly managed?

Who's shocked? Certainly not me.

You're right. De jure or de factor matters not. Detroit certainly is stratified. But that's the cause? I think that's the result. Maybe that's the big difference between us.

[corktownyuppie]

And the end result, I believe, is the underlying cause of having a slum city. Then why should we act all surprised when a slum city is run by crooked politicians? The majority of those of us with the means to do so looked away for years and figured, "It's their problem now; let them deal with it."

I'm with you but only up until the above.

A slum city doesn't need to be run by crooked politicians. The citizenry -- and nowhere else do we have a culture that better knows the power of the people to speak truth to the authority than Detroit -- has had and still has every opportunity to rebel against the corruption, and most importantly, the CULTURE of corruption that pervades this city.

So why then all this shock about a slum being poorly managed?

There's a difference between poor management and corrupt management. The poor and mediocre managers make mistakes and exercise poor judgment in allocating resources or holding people accountable.

Corrupt management sees public resources as a trough which exists to better themselves at the expense of the whole.

Despite being a capitalist, I still have a lean toward social justice -- and sometimes forms of socialism to get us there --as does the history of the middle class in Detroit.

Nowhere in social justice does it become ok for fraudulent and corrupt leaders to better themselves at the expense of the poor, huddled masses, and they need to be held accountable.

[Hermod]

Incompetence, corruption, criminal misuse of the public trust, sure -- all of that.

But isn't the underlying cause the way we've organized the metro, with a poor city surrounded by defensive cantons, all vying for a dwindling share of have-somes and have-mores?

The metro was orgaqnized that way when you had an extremely rich city surrounded by poor truck farms and slightly less poor dairy farms.