Historic Preservation in Detroit

[Fnemecek]

Novine... the DEGC has already spent millions on Harmonie Park [[Paradise Valley... or Paradise Folly as I like to call it).... what do they have to show for that??

Okay - I seriously love the name Paradise Folly. I'm using that from now on and cursing the fact that I didn't think of it first.

One thing that bothers me about Detroit's historic preservation is all the fragmented organizations... Preservation Wayne, CityScape, Detroit Area Art Deco Society... etc.

They exist as separate organizations because they have slightly different missions. Cityscape, for example, is focused on a variety of urban planning/urban design issues with historic preservation being one of them.

However, and this is the important part, all of those organizations - along with related professional organizations such as the AIA-Detroit, are a part of the Greater Detroit Historic Preservation Coalition - which is essentially an organization of organizations. Things are worked out and each of those groups moves in a fairly cohesive manner. It's also generally agreed that Preservation Wayne is the lead agency for historic preservation efforts locally.

[kraig]

Okay - I seriously love the name Paradise Folly. I'm using that from now on and cursing the fact that I didn't think of it first.

They exist as separate organizations because they have slightly different missions. Cityscape, for example, is focused on a variety of urban planning/urban design issues with historic preservation being one of them.

However, and this is the important part, all of those organizations - along with related professional organizations such as the AIA-Detroit, are a part of the Greater Detroit Historic Preservation Coalition - which is essentially an organization of organizations. Things are worked out and each of those groups moves in a fairly cohesive manner. It's also generally agreed that Preservation Wayne is the lead agency for historic preservation efforts locally.

To the DEGC, Paradise Valley is a necessary evil, this was the brainchild of City Council and was actually promoted heavily by Lonnie Bates, JoAnn Watson and Barbara Rose Collins. This gives the DEGC quite a few free passes. Don't you just love the politics in this city?

[Fnemecek]

The Detroit City Council wanted to have an African-themed business district that was similar to Greektown or Mexicantown. Spending more than $19 million and only getting one new business out of it wasn't their idea. That was the DEGC's blunder.

Anyone who is even remotely competent in economic development can jump start more than one new business if they are given a budget of more than $19 million. The fact that they didn't - coupled with the lack of any other significant accomplishments in the past 18 months - means that it's time for some heads to start rolling at the DEGC.

[ghettopalmetto]

The Detroit City Council wanted to have an African-themed business district that was similar to Greektown or Mexicantown. Spending more than $19 million and only getting one new business out of it wasn't their idea. That was the DEGC's blunder.

Anyone who is even remotely competent in economic development can jump start more than one new business if they are given a budget of more than $19 million. The fact that they didn't - coupled with the lack of any other significant accomplishments in the past 18 months - means that it's time for some heads to start rolling at the DEGC.

You could start 19 good restaurants with that kind of money!

[Huggybear]

As longtime Joe Citizen and Joe Taxpayer in Detroit, I would submit that the problem is that many "historic preservationists" [[as opposed to people who do preservation for a living) lack perspective, business planning/generation abilities, people skills, and therefore ability to confront why preservation is not working. What we get instead is the monotonous "anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot/monster/child pornographer." If you lack the introspection to understand the root causes of failure, you will not prevent failures in the future.

[rjlj]

Huggybear, that may be your prepective but is not reality. Yes, changes need to be made in how things are dealt with but every situation is different. There are many reasons why preservation is not working in this city and those forces are far much greater than the minority.

[kraig]

As longtime Joe Citizen and Joe Taxpayer in Detroit, I would submit that the problem is that many "historic preservationists" [[as opposed to people who do preservation for a living) lack perspective, business planning/generation abilities, people skills, and therefore ability to confront why preservation is not working. What we get instead is the monotonous "anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot/monster/child pornographer." If you lack the introspection to understand the root causes of failure, you will not prevent failures in the future.

What, are you saying that treating the saving of Tiger Stadium, a 33 million dollar endeavor, as if it were just a hobby to be done in one's spare time, was not the way to go?

I don't know HB, you sound like someone who likes to exercise good ,old fashioned common sense. Why let that get in the way?

[ghettopalmetto]

As longtime Joe Citizen and Joe Taxpayer in Detroit, I would submit that the problem is that many "historic preservationists" [[as opposed to people who do preservation for a living) lack perspective, business planning/generation abilities, people skills, and therefore ability to confront why preservation is not working. What we get instead is the monotonous "anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot/monster/child pornographer." If you lack the introspection to understand the root causes of failure, you will not prevent failures in the future.

I used to be a design professional who worked on many preservation projects. The problems with historic preservation in Detroit are specific to the mechanisms [[or lack thereof) to execute projects in Detroit.

[Huggybear]

Of which 3 would still be running after 6 months. Poor use of money.

You could start 19 good restaurants with that kind of money!

[ghettopalmetto]

Of which 3 would still be running after 6 months. Poor use of money.

Well, that's your speculative guess. I suppose your casual dismissal of any proposal to front small business loans is going to be a lot more productive than the millions spent for zero result on the Africantown project.

Hell, even if you loaned that money to start restaurants, and 3 of them remained after six months, that's a HELL of a lot better than the ZERO rate or return that has been realized to date.

Given this and the Tiger Stadium debacle in the past week, I have to wonder if Detroit has something against small businesses that pay taxes.

[kraig]

The Detroit City Council wanted to have an African-themed business district that was similar to Greektown or Mexicantown. Spending more than $19 million and only getting one new business out of it wasn't their idea. That was the DEGC's blunder.

Anyone who is even remotely competent in economic development can jump start more than one new business if they are given a budget of more than $19 million. The fact that they didn't - coupled with the lack of any other significant accomplishments in the past 18 months - means that it's time for some heads to start rolling at the DEGC.

City Council touts this all the time and BRC always states that if they call it African Town they'll get sued. As far as City Council is concerned, it's their brainchild. Especially since they had their CPC do a lot of work on the project. No matter how messed up the project is or how much money is wasted, City Council will campaign that they made this happen. Which makes them happy with the DEGC. The DEGC knows this, which is why it's considered a necessary evil to them. They give on this one project and get on a dozen more.

[Fnemecek]

City Council touts this all the time and BRC always states that if they call it African Town they'll get sued. As far as City Council is concerned, it's their brainchild. Especially since they had their CPC do a lot of work on the project. No matter how messed up the project is or how much money is wasted, City Council will campaign that they made this happen. Which makes them happy with the DEGC. The DEGC knows this, which is why it's considered a necessary evil to them. They give on this one project and get on a dozen more.

What does this have to do with spending $19 million and only getting one business out of it?

Do you think that if they got two businesses out of it, the City Council would be upset with them?

I used to work for a series of politicians. Contrary to what some on this forum believe, it is by no means impossible for a competent staffer to carry out a boss' political desires while still delivering value to the public. In fact, doing so usually makes your superiors even happier.

[kraig]

What does this have to do with spending $19 million and only getting one business out of it?

Do you think that if they got two businesses out of it, the City Council would be upset with them?

I used to work for a series of politicians. Contrary to what some on this forum believe, it is by no means impossible for a competent staffer to carry out a boss' political desires while still delivering value to the public. In fact, doing so usually makes your superiors even happier.

Once City Council and the DEGC got what they wanted, they no longer cared.

[Fnemecek]

And that is why heads need to role at both the City Council and the DEGC.