Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is to outsiders?

[iheartthed]

It's not just Europeans who find Metro Detroit unattractive. Americans, Asians and Africans don't like it too much either. I have been in countless conversations where I am defending Metro Detroit but the flaws still outweigh the positives.

[SteveJ]

It's not just Europeans who find Metro Detroit unattractive. Americans, Asians and Africans don't like it too much either. I have been in countless conversations where I am defending Metro Detroit but the flaws still outweigh the positives.

Yeah, affordable housing, safe neighborhood, and decent schools. I'm just dying to move to NYC so I can dedicate 90% of my income to rent.

[j to the jeremy]

Yeah, affordable housing, safe neighborhood, and decent schools. I'm just dying to move to NYC so I can dedicate 90% of my income to rent.

inject some more sarcasm and rhetoric, that'll teach 'em!

[iheartthed]

Yeah, affordable housing, safe neighborhood, and decent schools. I'm just dying to move to NYC so I can dedicate 90% of my income to rent.

NYC grew by nearly 200,000 people between 2000 - 2010, while Metro Detroit shrank by well over 200,000 people during the same time period. Nuff said.

[GUSHI]

NYC grew by nearly 200,000 people between 2000 - 2010, while Metro Detroit shrank by well over 200,000 people during the same time period. Nuff said.

NYC is dirty and over priced, my aunt live on 5th ave across from central park, it's definitely walkable, unlike most parts of Detroit, but they do have a lot of rats, litter, and you just feel dirty in the city,

[iheartthed]

NYC is dirty and over priced, my aunt live on 5th ave across from central park, it's definitely walkable, unlike most parts of Detroit, but they do have a lot of rats, litter, and you just feel dirty in the city,

Yet people still move there...

[Hermod]

Yet people still move there...

If the "big three" was to come roaring back with wages almost double the median national manufacturing wage, people would be clamoring to get to the Detroit area as well.

The suburbs of Washington DC are constantly expanding due to jobs being created there. I lived in suburban Virginia until i retired and really prefer the suburbs of Detroit, but the jobs were in suburban Virginia. At least around Detroit, the streets run in a straight grid and outside of the rush hours, the traffic isn't too bad.

[Patrick]

If the "big three" was to come roaring back with wages almost double the median national manufacturing wage, people would be clamoring to get to the Detroit area as well.

The suburbs of Washington DC are constantly expanding due to jobs being created there. I lived in suburban Virginia until i retired and really prefer the suburbs of Detroit, but the jobs were in suburban Virginia. At least around Detroit, the streets run in a straight grid and outside of the rush hours, the traffic isn't too bad.

Tell me about it. The urban planning here in Northern Virginia sucks, despite having America's best economy and being flush with cash.

[maverick1]

Yet people still move there...

Right. Also New York today is not like the NY of the 70s and 80s. Nowadays you hear nothing about the bad days of New York. Cost of living isn't as big an issue as some people make it seem. That's not to say affordability doesn't play a role in a city being attractive. If you can achieve the culture/amenities/density/cost of living balance you're winning. I think Charlotte, Atlanta, and Houston have done this.

[Barbara_10]

Yet people still move there...

I visited NYC, the only time ever in 2010, and loved every minute of it.

[GUSHI]

And the Fu Ken people are very Fu Ken rude.

[Bham1982]

NYC is dirty and over priced, my aunt live on 5th ave across from central park, it's definitely walkable, unlike most parts of Detroit, but they do have a lot of rats, litter, and you just feel dirty in the city,

Fifth Ave. across from Central Park is hardly dirty. Excepting quasi-dictatorships like Singapore. it's probably as clean as you'll see a very high density residential urban environment.

You're not the first person who's made this claim, though. Is it because you only visited many decades ago, in the "bad old days"? I have some issues with NYC, but "dirty" certainly wouldn't be one of them, especially compared to certain other U.S. and European cities.

[GUSHI]

I'm in NYC a few weeks each summer, and it is dirty,

Fifth Ave. across from Central Park is hardly dirty. Excepting quasi-dictatorships like Singapore. it's probably as clean as you'll see a very high density residential urban environment.

You're not the first person who's made this claim, though. Is it because you only visited many decades ago, in the "bad old days"? I have some issues with NYC, but "dirty" certainly wouldn't be one of them, especially compared to certain other U.S. and European cities.

[GUSHI]

And most European cities are dirty too, Rome, Frankfurt, Paris,
European are generally just not clean people,

[GUSHI]

I would take a house in Old Detroit any day of the week, than a 500 or 600 square feet apartment in brooklyn, queens, Bronx any day of the week, now they do have some nice homes in the above listed, they are just to congested for my liking.

[Bham1982]

And most European cities are dirty too, Rome, Frankfurt, Paris,
European are generally just not clean people,

Then I guess that you and I have very different definitions of dirty.

I agree that Rome is somewhat dirty, but Paris is pretty clean, and Frankfurt is like antiseptic clean. German cities are very clean.

And, yeah, I think NYC isn't particularly dirty, especially given the huge pedestrian crowds.

[Danny]

If our Metro-Detroit area diplays its non-ethnic culture filled with big box stores, woe filled neighborhoods, ethnic folks from around the world will not enter into those areas. Since the collapse of Automation Alley after 1975, Detroit went from white to black by 1980. Its suburbs went from keeping up with the Joneses to isolated bedroom pockets, but there are some ethnic markets around. You just have look beyond north of 8 Mile Rd. or west of Inkster Rd. to shop. The best way to make Detroit and its suburbs etnically attractive is to bring regional job growth and promote its infrastructure. And reducing big box superstores and increase proletarian New York City styled owned businesses would lure ethnicity to Detroit and its suburbs for years to come.

[casscorridor]

Where do I start?

Michigan was the only state in the nation to loose population.

Detroit lost 200,000 people in only 10 years.

Brush Park, strategically located within walking distance to Wayne State University, Detroit Medical Center, Eastern Market and Downtown CBD is a ghost town. In any other city, it would be the highest valued real estate.

Detroit's suburbs are generic, nothing special about them really, outside of Dearborn because of the auto history.

Detroit missed many opportunities to build a mass transit system, including the most recent chance that was suppose to be "the one"

Tourists come here for three main reasons: family, auto history and ruins. What other reason is there?

Yeah, there are artists moving here, but they are moving here because they can make art out of abandoned materials. Once they are bored with that kind of art, they will leave [[there are many dirt-cheap cities to live in that have way more amenities than Detroit, such as Philly).

Not saying Detroit has no hope, it does. But the politics and culture of Michigan and Metro Detroit need to change first.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I find this thread absurd. Why would anyone care about what other people think of their city/region/metro area? Yes, Detroit [[including Metro Detroit) and Michigan have had our fair share of bad press. But where you live is no better or worse because of what someone else thinks it is. I don't like Indian food. If you do, my opinion should be entirely irrelevant to you.

As it is, I think metro Detroit is a great place to live, suburbs included. Having lived elsewhere, I did not move back to Detroit out of loyalty [[although I am loyal). This is where I want to live. Fits my life. Proud to be here. And, when I was preparing to leave NY to move, more than a few people were exited for me, a little jealous to still be stuck in the rat race.

[Detroitnerd]

I find this thread absurd. Why would anyone care about what other people think of their city/region/metro area? Yes, Detroit [[including Metro Detroit) and Michigan have had our fair share of bad press. But where you live is no better or worse because of what someone else thinks it is. I don't like Indian food. If you do, my opinion should be entirely irrelevant to you.

As it is, I think metro Detroit is a great place to live, suburbs included. Having lived elsewhere, I did not move back to Detroit out of loyalty [[although I am loyal). This is where I want to live. Fits my life. Proud to be here. And, when I was preparing to leave NY to move, more than a few people were exited for me, a little jealous to still be stuck in the rat race.

Oh, I'm all for sucking it up and not caring what other people think. It's just this little thing where when everybody thinks your regions sucks, people leave, companies won't locate there, and the place becomes poorer and poorer and less populated.

[SteveJ]

Oh, I'm all for sucking it up and not caring what other people think. It's just this little thing where when everybody thinks your regions sucks, people leave, companies won't locate there, and the place becomes poorer and poorer and less populated.

If you're an engineer, Michigan is the place to be. If you're a Barista, then I feel sorry for you.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Oh, I'm all for sucking it up and not caring what other people think. It's just this little thing where when everybody thinks your regions sucks, people leave, companies won't locate there, and the place becomes poorer and poorer and less populated.

Our economic woes [[poorer and poorer*) are self-inflicted, and self-fixable. Do you think companies don't come here because of percieved standard of living? Note: jobs flourish in just about every state with low taxes and regulation. If Detroit abolished the city income tax without compensating tax hikes elsewhere, and made it easy to open a business [[in terms of regulations and permitting), you would be amazed at the difference it would make. Companies don't open here- and some leave- because it's less expensive, faster, and easier to open in North Carolina, Tennessee, New Mexico, Utah... This is to stay nothing of our indigenous small businesses that are rendered stillborn or kept down by oppressive regulations and high property and business taxes. Say what you want about Detroit or Michigan: we don't exactly make it easy for entrepreneurs.

*Poorer and poorer is relative of course. Most people at the poverty level would have lived like kings as compared to someone a hundred years ago, or in the Depression. When I lived in NYC, I walked past public housing projects to get to work. There were DirectTV dishes ALL OVER those towers, and air conditioners in every other room. The kids that lived there never seemed to lack for bikes or rollerblades. Theirs is a fairly comfortable poverty. The *real* problem with poverty today is that it's not so bad to make you try like hell to get out of it. Truly humane anti-poverty efforts would provide subsistence food, shelter, and an education.

I know that will make me supremely unpopular here; doesn't mean that it isn't true. Hate me if you like, I won't hate you.

[GUSHI]

Companies don't locate here because were a union state.

Oh, I'm all for sucking it up and not caring what other people think. It's just this little thing where when everybody thinks your regions sucks, people leave, companies won't locate there, and the place becomes poorer and poorer and less populated.

[sumas]

I am feeling tired and grumpy but must weigh in on this. Over the years we have hosted, Candians, Europeans and Asians. Most are amazed at what SE Mi has to offer. They come expecting murder city and leave with a "wow" this area , these folk, have a lot to offer.

I am an avowed city person but our burbs have lots to offer too.

The people make this a special place to be. Go Michigan!

[gameguy56]

Yeah, affordable housing, safe neighborhood, and decent schools. I'm just dying to move to NYC so I can dedicate 90% of my income to rent.

NYC is not expensive compared to incomes in the outer boroughs, and shows, in fact, how out of touch metro-detroiters are. Almost all mid-sized and larger cities such as Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Buffalo, etc. have safe, stable middle class areas with walkable business districts and affordable housing costs. These places are where college educated young people want to move and are moving to.

Hamtramck is the only thing close to that in metro Detroit, and it's barely holding on.