Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[Bham1982]

Just for instance, Ferndale borders Detroit and attracts young people who enjoy going into the city, if not living there. Is it perhaps also that Grosse Pointe traditionally attracts people who don't enjoy going into the city?

Ferndale enjoys a very strategic location in the heart of the region. You can use 696, Woodward, Lodge and I-75 to go almost anywhere. In contrast, the Pointes are far from everything except for downtown, and not along any freeways.

[313WX]

Ferndale enjoys a very strategic location in the heart of the region. You can use 696, Woodward, Lodge and I-75 to go almost anywhere. In contrast, the Pointes are far from everything except for downtown, and not along any freeways.

All of the Grosse Pointes are less than 5 minutes from I-94 [[about as long as it takes to get from all of the freeways near Ferndale).

[Bham1982]

All of the Grosse Pointes are less than 5 minutes from I-94 [[about as long as it takes to get from all of the freeways near Ferndale).

I don't think that's true. 696, the most strategic freeway in the region, forms the northern border of Ferndale, and is accessed by fast-moving Woodward. I-94, nowhere near as strategic, doesn't run in the Pointes, is accessed via much slower local roads, and sits in the ghetto. And Ferndale is surrounded by "useful things" on most sides [[downtown Royal Oak, people's jobs in Southfield, etc.) while the Pointes surrounded by water to the east, slums to the west, and perfectly fine but anonymous Macomb bungalows to the north. Where are the shops, restaurants and services?

[313WX]

I-94...sits in the ghetto.

You mean to tell me we will have to drive through DETOILET to reach the nearest expressway!? That just won't do!!! After all, CRIME and POVERTY may jump out of nowhere and latch onto our moving luxury car!!!

[Bham1982]

You mean to tell me we will have to drive through DETOILET to reach the nearest expressway!? That just won't do!!! After all, CRIME and POVERTY may jump out of nowhere and latch onto our moving luxury car!!!

Feel free to snicker, but I bet this is an issue to some folks. You basically have to travel through some of the worst slums in the U.S. to get anywhere. I would not enjoy crossing the Alter "Berlin Wall" just to get decent sushi, groceries, or a pair of pants. The Pointes are gorgeous but isolated, IMO. Ferndale is bland architecturally and poor schools but strategic location.

[corktownyuppie]

You mean to tell me we will have to drive through DETOILET to reach the nearest expressway!? That just won't do!!! After all, CRIME and POVERTY may jump out of nowhere and latch onto our moving luxury car!!!

Im with bham on this. I-696 is definitely the more strategic highway compared to I-94. I-94 is ugly, gritty, and gross. And the cities through which it goes are generally struggling blue collar communities at best or dirty, blighted, neighborhoods with crime issues at worst.

if the neighborhoods bordering I-94 were Boston Edison, Palmer Woods, and Indian Village, people would have a totally different perception of Detroit. Unfortunately, instead of putting our best foot forward, the view from I-94 is some of the worst parts of the city.

Obviously that's no ones "fault" but we shouldn't be ignorant of it. Image does matter.

As for GP, I think it might be a bit premature to say its best days are being it. A lot can change in 10-20 years, and I think that GP property will rise if Downtown becomes seen as a regional attraction and if East English Village cleans up the blight and crime issues.

I know that many Detroiters resent now much focus goes downtown....and understandably so. But even with the recent progress, I think it is fair to say that 50-60+% if the 4,000,000 Metro Detroiters still perceive downtown as dangerous. Now obviously that perception is not accurate IMHO. But it will take another decade or more to start really changing the perception of outsiders. When they see Detroit as a place to explore and enjoy rather than a place to avoid, GP will take off once again.

The advantage that it has puts its head and shoulders above the Oakland County competitors... Coastal property on Lake St Clair. That's a total game changer.

[Goose]

Where are the shops, restaurants and services?

WTF? they just put a brand new BW3 at 9 and Harper, what more do you want? its very close to GP.

[Gistok]

I don't think that's true. 696, the most strategic freeway in the region, forms the northern border of Ferndale, and is accessed by fast-moving Woodward. I-94, nowhere near as strategic, doesn't run in the Pointes, is accessed via much slower local roads, and sits in the ghetto. And Ferndale is surrounded by "useful things" on most sides [[downtown Royal Oak, people's jobs in Southfield, etc.) while the Pointes surrounded by water to the east, slums to the west, and perfectly fine but anonymous Macomb bungalows to the north. Where are the shops, restaurants and services?

Bham1982.... sorry but I call BS on that claim.... the 48224 zipcode... the Detroit one you have to drive partway thru to get to get to I-94 has Cadieux, Outer Drive/Whittier, Moross and [[in 48236) Vernier to get to I-94... last time I checked the Detroit part of that area may now be majority African-American... but I would hardly call it Ghetto. And your I-696 claim is also rather spurious... half of it goes thru Macomb County?? The folks in the Pointes have quite a bit of shopping choices along Mack Ave, and farther north, along Harper and Jefferson Ave. It's not the wasteland you make it out to be. Only thing missing is an upscale mall.

[casscorridor]

Grosse Pointe is older and more urban than Bloomfield Hills.

Grosse Pointe is more GM people while Bloomfield Hills is more Chrysler.

Grosse Pointe doesn't need to be "close to stuff" in Metro Detroit suburbs. Everywhere is still accessible by car if need be.

Grosse Pointe is on Lake St Claire. Bloomfield Hills has hills.

Bloomfield Hills is close to Birmingham and Royal Oak and Pontiac.

Grosse Pointe is close to Downtown.

Neither Grosse Pointe nor Bloomfield Hills have much culture. This isn't New York City, but the Industrial Midwest.

The few blocks that make up the shopping/dinning districts of Birmingham, Royal Oak or Ferndale pale in comparison to the countless similar blocks in real cities that don't abandon and neglect their central city.

[Detroitnerd]

Ferndale enjoys a very strategic location in the heart of the region. You can use 696, Woodward, Lodge and I-75 to go almost anywhere. In contrast, the Pointes are far from everything except for downtown, and not along any freeways.

First off, the Lodge goes nowhere near Ferndale. But I bet lots of folks in Ferndale wish it did. 'Cause, you see, my point is that I know a lot of youngish people, mostly couples, many with children, who love Detroit but want a house beyond the city line. And I believe that plays into why they choose Ferndale, which, as you point out, is a hop-skip-and-jump from downtown Detroit.

I could be wrong, but I've generally thought that the appeal of the Pointes had to do with exclusivity and disconnectedness from Detroit in general.

[Bham1982]

I could be wrong, but I've generally thought that the appeal of the Pointes had to do with exclusivity and disconnectedness from Detroit in general.

I don't understand why the relative appeal would be based on isolation from things. Obviously the Pointes are desirable, but I think most people would agree there's a big difference in property values between the Pointes and the Oakland County wealth centers.

If it isn't the relative isolation from amenities, and then relative proximity to undesirables, then why do the property values lag? Is it just people have the WASP image and perceive it as stuffy?

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

If you live anywhere along the Woodward corridor from Ferndale up to the Bloomfields, you have the widest array of "stuff" at your fingertips relative to anywhere else in MI, which is why property values are higher.

[jt1]

I don't understand why the relative appeal would be based on isolation from things. Obviously the Pointes are desirable, but I think most people would agree there's a big difference in property values between the Pointes and the Oakland County wealth centers.

If it isn't the relative isolation from amenities, and then relative proximity to undesirables, then why do the property values lag? Is it just people have the WASP image and perceive it as stuffy?

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

If you live anywhere along the Woodward corridor from Ferndale up to the Bloomfields, you have the widest array of "stuff" at your fingertips relative to anywhere else in MI, which is why property values are higher.

I'm really starting to think that Bham is a paid shill for Oakland County. Heaven forbid you say anything negative about the fancy part of OC.

We get it, you think that Birmingham and the Bloomfields are the greatest thing in the world. That doesn't mean that no other places offer what others are looking for. I have a feeling, given the wealth and relatively frugal ways of the few GPers I know that they aren't interested in having a store that offers 100 varieties of specialty olive oil.

[Bham1982]

We get it, you think that Birmingham and the Bloomfields are the greatest thing in the world.

No, that would be you, projecting.

I don't particularly like Birmingham. I don't own in Birmingham, and probably won't buy there, as I consider it overvalued. It works for me, right now. Really the only positives for me are convenient location, walkable, and close to friends/associates. Downtown is annoying and the neighborhoods are being destroyed by crap developments. Taxes are too high, and services aren't better than neighboring communities. The library sucks.

Bloomfield Hills is beautiful around Cranbrook and the lakes, but I like it even less than Birmingham. It's too isolated from stuff once you get to far west, and generally too old and conservative for my tastes. Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

[GP For Life]

No, that would be you, projecting.

I don't particularly like Birmingham. I don't own in Birmingham, and probably won't buy there, as I consider it overvalued. It works for me, right now. Really the only positives for me are convenient location, walkable, and close to friends/associates. Downtown is annoying and the neighborhoods are being destroyed by crap developments. Taxes are too high, and services aren't better than neighboring communities. The library sucks.

Bloomfield Hills is beautiful around Cranbrook and the lakes, but I like it even less than Birmingham. It's too isolated from stuff once you get to far west, and generally too old and conservative for my tastes. Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

Sounds like someone is going to move to GP.

[JBMcB]

The library sucks.

Seriously?!? Seemed pretty damned nice to me.

[Bham1982]

Seriously?!? Seemed pretty damned nice to me.

Have you been to the Bloomfield, Novi, or Southfield libraries? Compared to those, the Birmingham library is tiny and decrepit. Bloomfield and Birmingham have a joint agreement, though, so it's essentially one system from the borrower perspective.

[Don K]

Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

Actually, Bloomfield Hills uses the Birmingham Baldwin library.
http://www.bloomfieldhillsmi.net/residents/library.php
The fantastic library you're thinking of might be the Bloomfield Township library at the corner of Lone Pine and Telegraph. People confuse us with the Hills all the time, I suppose because we share a post office and most of the kids go to Bloomfield Hills schools [[some go to Birmingham schools).

[Bham1982]

Actually, Bloomfield Hills uses the Birmingham Baldwin library.
http://www.bloomfieldhillsmi.net/residents/library.php
The fantastic library you're thinking of might be the Bloomfield Township library at the corner of Lone Pine and Telegraph. People confuse us with the Hills all the time, I suppose because we share a post office and most of the kids go to Bloomfield Hills schools [[some go to Birmingham schools).

Yeah, I get it; I grew up there [[Long Lake/Lahser area). When people say "Bloomfield" locally, they usually mean "Bloomfield Hills and Township", and since the township is 10 times the population, they're really default referring to the Township.

[bailey]

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

[jt1]

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

How dare you. BHam knows all and there is no single chance that anyone under the age of 50 would choose GP [[or anywhere else for that matter) over Birmingham or the Bloomfields [[except the nasty parts close to Pontiac)

[cjd]

How dare you. BHam knows all and there is no single chance that anyone under the age of 50 would choose GP [[or anywhere else for that matter) over Birmingham or the Bloomfields [[except the nasty parts close to Pontiac)

My sarcasm detector isn't working.... are you serious?

[Pam]

My sarcasm detector isn't working.... are you serious?

He's not serious.

[Bham1982]

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

Translation- I don't have anything specific to rebut, and realize most of this under discussion is true [[or at least perceived to be true) so please stop posting and potentially harming my property values.

If the Pointes have similar shops, restaurants and services, as in Oakland County, and we're all lying, then set us straight. If the Pointes have similar price appreciation as other areas in recent years, and are unaffected by location, then put us in our place and post the data.

BTW, I like the Pointes, and may one day live there. The architectural quality, on average, is the best in Michigan, and if I ever worked downtown I would consider it. If dowtown ever truly revitalizes the Pointes will probably be huge beneficiaries, and will strengthen relative to other areas.

[Bham1982]

First off, the Lodge goes nowhere near Ferndale. .

The Lodge is less than 5 minutes from Ferndale. Less than two miles away; just take 8 Mile.

[Detroitnerd]

The Lodge is less than 5 minutes from Ferndale. Less than two miles away; just take 8 Mile.

If you live at Woodward Heights, to get to the Lodge you have to drive down to Woodward, take Woodward over to the Lodge, drive quite some time, get to the left, and, at any busy time of day, spend about 10 minutes in the left merging your way onto Lodge southbound. Is that "convenient"? Hey, if you think it is, fine, Ferndale is the Azores of the Woodward axis.

But all this "strategic" claptrap seems a silly way to call a spade a spade: Ferndale is close to Detroit. And that's my point, really. Ferndale has plenty of residents who are especially engaged with the city but, for various reasons, wanted to live outside it. Trust me on this, they're not in Ferndale to be closer to Somerset. They're on the cusp of the city because they want that proximity to Detroit.

As to the matter of finding value in isolation from things, that relates to a point I was trying to make earlier: I think younger people don't want to be isolated from things. I think older people didn't mind being in their bubble. So I don't think we disagree there.

That said, the way you word things like "proximity to undesirables" is one of the most disgusting things I think I've read on this board. I've been stranded in tough neighborhoods before and found ... nice people ... who helped me ... without question. There are good people and bad people everywhere. When you talk about "undesirables," I know exactly which kind you are. I'm actually very glad you would never live in my neighborhood.