Ontario Turns Hard Left??

[Richard]

Merging the Catholic school board with the public school board is kinda like Mother Theresa being roommates with Charles Manson.

[Wesley Mouch]

Merging the Catholic school board with the public school board is kinda like Mother Theresa being roommates with Charles Manson.

Yep. Has anyone else been following PM Trudeau's requirement that any organization applying to their summer jobs program must attest to complying with his view of abortion as a basic right?

Or if you want another, the denial of Trinity Western University's law school accreditation because they dare to hold the opinion that abortion is wrong? [[Note that Canada has no legal decision on abortion -- so this is basically the Liberal party projecting their opinion of Charter Rights.)

At least Pope Francis had the wisdom to decline to apologize for the Church's actions with respect to Residential Schools [[a bit of left over colonial redemption of pagan souls mixed with a sprinkling of the usual priestly sexual abuse). Trudeau stopped just short of condemning Francis for his failure to do what is required by today's political climate.

It really does seem to be the Catholic Church vs. Government of Canada these days. Charlie and Teresa would probably get along better.

[Canadian Visitor]

You're wandering more than a little off topic.

Yep. Has anyone else been following PM Trudeau's requirement that any organization applying to their summer jobs program must attest to complying with his view of abortion as a basic right?

Not really accurate.

Church-based camps, social programs and the like will continue to be eligible irrespective of their 'mother church's' position on abortion. Rather, those religious entities who specifically fight against abortion rights, actively, will not be eligible for summer jobs w/i that agency or unit. In other words the gov't won't fund someone hiring a kid to distribute flyers against abortion.

A perfectly reasonable position. Entirely mis-stated by you.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3999518/t...womens-rights/

Or if you want another, the denial of Trinity Western University's law school accreditation because they dare to hold the opinion that abortion is wrong?

This is not a decision of the government of Canada in any way. In fact Trinity's program is accredited by the provincial government in British Columbia, the province where it is based.

What has happened is that 'being called to the bar' in Canada is a function of provincial law societies. Those societies are made up of existing lawyers, who vote their peers into governing positions and decide certain regulatory matters by ballot of the profession. Several of those law societies are refusing to accredit [[or call to the bar) grads from Trinity Western, generally by consensus of their professional ranks.

That has been the subject of on-going court battles.

The issue in those battles is almost never about a woman's right to choose. Its about the covenant that has to be signed by those attending Trinity Western to refrain from gay/lesbian sex.

That is seen as instructive that charter-protected rights to sexual orientation may be suppressed and inconsistent w/the oath one takes to be a lawyer.

You really must learn to represent the facts and not Fox News sounds bites. I had thought better of you.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle30674427/

[[Note that Canada has no legal decision on abortion -- so this is basically the Liberal party projecting their opinion of Charter Rights.)

Also not correct.

The Supreme Court of Canada struck down the Federal restrictions on abortion in 1988 in the Morgentaler decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Morgentaler

No government subsequently, including 3 Conservative administrations has ever re-introduced any law on the subject.

As such all abortion is legal as the sole discretion of the medical profession, subject to normal laws on informed consent.

That is the established law in Canada and has been for 30 years.

[Wesley Mouch]

You're wandering more than a little off topic.

I suppose so. Towards adding value to the discussion at least I hope. Or maybe I'm just deluding myself too.

And being a little off-topic, I hate to continue -- but I stand by my core points -- even if the details might not be 100% accurate.

Its clear to a religious person that the Gov't of Canada has taken a side on several religious battles recently. For another, see your Prime Ministers spoken disappointment on the Pope's unwillingness to apologize for their residential schools [[that were trying to spread the gospel, but were clearly tainted by abusive practices).

You seem not to notice the trend. Canada's religious communities do. And therein is the problem. The 'hard left' government truly believes it is defending basic human rights. And the religious community sees government intolerance of their rights.

Rights for some groups are being favoured over religious rights. I think that's a mistake for Canada. And their California [[Ontario) is certainly turning 'hard left', IMO

[Canadian Visitor]

I suppose so. Towards adding value to the discussion at least I hope. Or maybe I'm just deluding myself too.

And being a little off-topic, I hate to continue -- but I stand by my core points -- even if the details might not be 100% accurate.

Its clear to a religious person that the Gov't of Canada has taken a side on several religious battles recently. For another, see your Prime Ministers spoken disappointment on the Pope's unwillingness to apologize for their residential schools [[that were trying to spread the gospel, but were clearly tainted by abusive practices).

You seem not to notice the trend. Canada's religious communities do. And therein is the problem. The 'hard left' government truly believes it is defending basic human rights. And the religious community sees government intolerance of their rights.

Rights for some groups are being favoured over religious rights. I think that's a mistake for Canada. And their California [[Ontario) is certainly turning 'hard left', IMO

Perhaps you might wish to know, on the subject of 'residential schools' that every single Christian Denomination in Canada which ran such schools formally apologized for its role in so doing, a long time ago.

The United Church [[methodist/presbyterian to you) apologized in 1998.

The Anglican Church apologized in 1993.

The Presbyterian Church apologized in 1994.

The only denomination not to apologize is the Catholic Church who also operated more such schools than all the other denominations combined.

The Government of Canada also formally apologized. That apology was delivered by Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper in 2008.

The level of abuse involved in these schools, physical, sexual and psychological was extraordinary and shameful.

This involved taking children from their parents on-reserves, against their will and without their consent, and bringing them to schools far away, with no contact w/their former communities or parents, whereupon, many, if not a majority were additionally subject to physical abuse, beatings and molestation. Those who weren't were still left isolated from their families for months or longer.

For further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi..._school_system

To not even have the courage and decency to issue an apology is appealing.

There is a consensus on this issue in Canada that transcends party, ideology and faith.

It is not picking on the Pope or Catholics to express disappointing in dishonorable inaction.

PS. the majority of Canadian Catholics agree w/the government on this, not the Pope.

[Wesley Mouch]

Trudeau's call for an apology sounds like grandstanding to me.

The wikipedia article says that Pope Benedict issued the followging:

His Holiness [i.e. the Pope] recalled that since the earliest days of her presence in Canada, the Church, particularly through her missionary personnel, has closely accompanied the Indigenous peoples.Given the sufferings that some Indigenous children experienced in the Canadian Residential School system, the Holy Father expressed his sorrow at the anguish caused by the deplorable conduct of some members of the Church and he offered his sympathy and prayerful solidarity. His Holiness emphasized that acts of abuse cannot be tolerated in society. He prayed that all those affected would experience healing, and he encouraged First Nations Peoples to continue to move forward with renewed hope.

Pretty clear to me. Unless you are obsessed with forcing the use of the word 'apology'. That's the only thing PM Trudeau seems to be lacking.

I'm only moderately informed on the Residential School issue. Its clear there were serious abuses. But I couldn't find anything that suggests the problems were as you suggest a 'majority' of students. But we would no doubt agree that even a few cases of sexual and physical abuse is too many. And there seem to have been a lot more than a few here.

Today we seem incapable of seeing good -- preferring to only see evil. And we seem eager to apply today's standards to the past. There was evil in Residential Schools. Just like the evil in Thomas Jefferson's slaveowning. But as Pope Francis might say here, 'who are we to judge'.

And I say this even after having watched 'The Keepers' on Netflix, which I recommend to all. Makes you want to judge the Church harshly.

The piling on of PM Trudeau here is gratuitous and divisive. We would all be better advised to seek reconciliation, and not revenge.

[Canadian Visitor]

I'm only moderately informed on the Residential School issue. Its clear there were serious abuses. But I couldn't find anything that suggests the problems were as you suggest a 'majority' of students. But we would no doubt agree that even a few cases of sexual and physical abuse is too many. And there seem to have been a lot more than a few here.

Perhaps you would do well to read up on the issue further before commenting.

The piling on of PM Trudeau here is gratuitous and divisive. We would all be better advised to seek reconciliation, and not revenge.

Perhaps you would care to know that Canada had a national Commission on Truth and Reconciliation with respect to its relationship to aboriginal peoples. The mandate was as you suggest about going forward w/healing, not laying criminal charges.

It reported in 2015.

Recommendation #58 is as follows:

ChurcApologies and Reconciliation

58.

We call upon the Pope to issue an apology to Survivors,

their families, and communities for the Roman Catholic

Church’s role in the spiritual, cultural, emotional,

physical, and sexual abuse of First Nations, Inuit, and

Métis children in Catholic-run residential schools. We
call for that apology to be similar to the 2010 apology

issued to Irish victims of abuse and to occur within one
year of the issuing of this Report and to be delivered by
the Pope in Canada

http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstit...n_English2.pdf

That's the voice of aboriginal Canadians, not a Liberal Prime Minister.

[Király]

Merging the Catholic school board with the public school board is kinda like Mother Theresa being roommates with Charles Manson.

The Catholic school board *is* a public school board. The Catholic and non-Catholic public school boards are a "separate-but-equal" kind of arrangement. It's one of those strange but true things about Ontario. In Alberta where they also have this you could tick a Catholic or Non-Catholic box on your property taxes to direct to which board you wanted your tax money to go.

[Canadian Visitor]

Merging the Catholic school board with the public school board is kinda like Mother Theresa being roommates with Charles Manson.

You know Ontario's public schools are one of the top ranked systems on the planet right?

Of course not.

You know the Catholic system is government funded, and regulated, its teachers have to graduate the same programs as public school teachers and it must adhere to the same curriculum and physical discipline is not allowed.

The principal difference is that there is a once a week chapel service and Biblical material is acceptable in certain courses [[public speaking as an example).

They are otherwise near identical and largely create duplicate administrative structures.

They don't exist for a religious reason per se. They are an artifact of Canadian Confederation when all schools were Protestant or Catholic, w/the former largely being English and the latter being French.

Protection for both was enshrined to protect the right to minority language education.

Quebec abolished religious schools some years ago, as have most [[but not all) other provinces.

Linguistic Boards remain.

[Richard]

You know Ontario's public schools are one of the top ranked systems on the planet right?

Of course not.

You know the Catholic system is government funded, and regulated, its teachers have to graduate the same programs as public school teachers and it must adhere to the same curriculum and physical discipline is not allowed.

The principal difference is that there is a once a week chapel service and Biblical material is acceptable in certain courses [[public speaking as an example).

They are otherwise near identical and largely create duplicate administrative structures.

They don't exist for a religious reason per se. They are an artifact of Canadian Confederation when all schools were Protestant or Catholic, w/the former largely being English and the latter being French.

Protection for both was enshrined to protect the right to minority language education.

Quebec abolished religious schools some years ago, as have most [[but not all) other provinces.

Linguistic Boards remain.

I was not questioning the ranking of the public school system,it maybe was a bit confusing because most Americans are not familiar with how the two different systems work and why.

To mention mingling of funds or of the two groups would really mean little to the adverage American without some systematic background.

Here it would be considered Catholic school as a religious based private school verses a public school where anything religious is currently frowned on or banned,hence my comment.

Thank you to those who took the time to explain it.

Unfortantly our public school board system is taxpayer funded but does not answer to the taxpayer or the city that they are located in,they have their own little rules,maybe they can also learn from Canadians public system because as recent events show they clearly have not had a handle on things for quite some time.

It is interesting that Quebec abolished religious schools,completely or government funded?

Some of the recent immigrants where I am at have formed their little private schools based on the religion of their culture,way back in the early 80s I think I was paying $80 per week to send my kids to catholic school,income based,but I am mid western Lutheran,my wife at the time was catholic but it was not required to be to attend.

[Canadian Visitor]

I was not questioning the ranking of the public school system,it maybe was a bit confusing because most Americans are not familiar with how the two different systems work and why.

To mention mingling of funds or of the two groups would really mean little to the adverage American without some systematic background.

Here it would be considered Catholic school as a religious based private school verses a public school where anything religious is currently frowned on or banned,hence my comment.

Thank you to those who took the time to explain it.

Unfortantly our public school board system is taxpayer funded but does not answer to the taxpayer or the city that they are located in,they have their own little rules,maybe they can also learn from Canadians public system because as recent events show they clearly have not had a handle on things for quite some time.

It is interesting that Quebec abolished religious schools,completely or government funded?

Some of the recent immigrants where I am at have formed their little private schools based on the religion of their culture,way back in the early 80s I think I was paying $80 per week to send my kids to catholic school,income based,but I am mid western Lutheran,my wife at the time was catholic but it was not required to be to attend.

Quebec still has private schools.

Though they are up to 50% government funded, and a fairly small part of the education system there.

To get government funds they must adhere to the public curriculum [[but may add to it)

The abolition was of public or government boards w/a religious designation.

That happened, in Quebec, in 1997.

It required a Constitutional amendment.

But an amendment that only affects one province, requires only the consent of that province and the Federal government [[via parliament).

Quebec's legislature passes the request, and the feds acceded w/the controversy.