Worse than Port Au Prince or Monrovia..and Bing blames the media...

[Shollin]

They're "safe areas" because my area isn't safe. My tax dollars are being spent on keeping Gilbert's and Ilitch's areas safe. THAT'S the issue people are having, and why all the "negativity". People flaunt on this site "I live in a safe area", while the rest of us, daily, have to fend for ourselves. When someone points that out, they're called a troll. When the buffer zone starts to collapse, then maybe people here will realize it's their problem too. Have a latte in the green zone.

So it's your tax dollars and not the tax dollars of the people who moved there? I don't understand this anomosity towards downtown and midtown. You think the rest of Detroit would be better without this development?

[Honky Tonk]

So it's your tax dollars and not the tax dollars of the people who moved there? I don't understand this anomosity towards downtown and midtown. You think the rest of Detroit would be better without this development?

I don't have a CLUE what it is you're trying to say.

[313WX]

So it's your tax dollars and not the tax dollars of the people who moved there? I don't understand this anomosity towards downtown and midtown. You think the rest of Detroit would be better without this development?

Nwo it's one thing to say it costs less to provide services to downtown/midtown.

It's an entirely different thing to say the tax dollars generated are not pittance compared to what those in the neighborhoods pay [[combined income and property taxes).

[Bham1982]

So it's your tax dollars and not the tax dollars of the people who moved there? I don't understand this anomosity towards downtown and midtown. You think the rest of Detroit would be better without this development?

I don't think the rest of Detroit would necessarily be better off, but yeah, it's his tax dollars that subsidize the improvements in Downtown/Midtown.

The whole "revitalization" of these two areas basically consists of wealth transfers from Michigan taxpayers to landowners and residents in these two small neighborhoods. There's almost no organic revitalization, and every single decent-sized renovation or new construction project only occurs because of generous public subsidies.

The argument in favor of this situation is that eventually the subsidies will spark some sort of sustainable revitalization, but we haven't seen that yet.

[bailey]

So it's your tax dollars and not the tax dollars of the people who moved there? I don't understand this anomosity towards downtown and midtown. You think the rest of Detroit would be better without this development?

Not for nothing, but seems to me the "safe" areas of which he was speaking are found within NEZ areas or were created with massive tax credits/subsidies. So, no they are not paying their fair share...if you ask me...which you didn't... but just sayin.

[TexasT]

Not for nothing, but seems to me the "safe" areas of which he was speaking are found within NEZ areas or were created with massive tax credits/subsidies. So, no they are not paying their fair share...if you ask me...which you didn't... but just sayin.

So the "safe" areas are not Detroit [[per Benny) and don't pay their fair share [[per you). Gotcha.

If they are such leeches [[I'm assuming if they aren't paying enough, they are leeching the system), would Detroit be better off without them then? I don't think so. Because even though my property tax rate is a bit reduced, I still pay a lot of property tax. On top of that, I pay an income tax to live and work in Detroit [[telling ya, these state and local taxes are tough on a Texas girl). Don't even get into the sales revenue from shopping/eating/drinking/enjoying the city. Just because property taxes are lowered [[even though the actual tax paid is still relatively high), doesn't mean residents of those zones are not paying their fair share into the system.

[bailey]

So the "safe" areas are not Detroit [[per Benny) and don't pay their fair share [[per you). Gotcha.

If they are such leeches [[I'm assuming if they aren't paying enough, they are leeching the system), would Detroit be better off without them then? I don't think so.

Personally if I were a resident of Detroit NOT living in a NEZ, I'd like to know why people [[likely) more wealthy than I, living in [[most likely) newer and nicer digs than I, receive the lion's share of the focus when it comes to resource allocation AND pay a lower tax burden than I do. I think that is a fair question.

Is the city better off that they are there? I don't know, have there been any credible studies that show the massive subsidization of these areas created the growth they claimed it would?

And yes, I sort of agree with Benny... there are areas of Detroit have most preferred neighborhood status and receive far more in attention, service and support than many other areas of the city. From a purely selfish point of view, I appreciate that because the areas which I am most likely to be hanging out in are those same "safe" areas. So, thanks.

Because even though my property tax rate is a bit reduced, I still pay a lot of property tax. On top of that, I pay an income tax to live and work in Detroit [[telling ya, these state and local taxes are tough on a Texas girl). Don't even get into the sales tax from shopping/eating/drinking/enjoying the city. Just because property taxes are lowered [[even though the actual tax paid is still relatively high), doesn't mean residents of those zones are not paying their fair share into the system.

the fact remains, you pay less and get more, while others with less pay more and get less. Seems reversed to me...

[Eber Brock Ward]

So the "safe" areas are not Detroit [[per Benny) and don't pay their fair share [[per you). Gotcha.

If they are such leeches [[I'm assuming if they aren't paying enough, they are leeching the system), would Detroit be better off without them then? I don't think so. Because even though my property tax rate is a bit reduced, I still pay a lot of property tax. On top of that, I pay an income tax to live and work in Detroit [[telling ya, these state and local taxes are tough on a Texas girl). Don't even get into the sales tax from shopping/eating/drinking/enjoying the city. Just because property taxes are lowered [[even though the actual tax paid is still relatively high), doesn't mean residents of those zones are not paying their fair share into the system.

Interesting point.

I bet, when you consider city income tax and the state's sales tax local revenue sharing program, that the people in the NEZs not only pay for the city's foregone property tax but actually make money for the city, thereby not just paying their "fair share," but actually more than their fair share.

[bailey]

Interesting point.

I bet, when you consider city income tax and the state's sales tax local revenue sharing program, that the people in the NEZs not only pay for the city's foregone property tax but actually make money for the city, thereby not just paying their "fair share," but actually more than their fair share.

Not disagreeing that might be possible. Given that many of hte areas were established areas already though... is it that likely? for example,

Indian Village, English Village, West Village and Berry Subdivision offer tax incentives for new residents who are currently moving to the Villages. An NEZ tax break allows new homeowners to enjoy up to a 30 percent discount on property taxes

Is that 30% made up? IDK. Does anyone?

[TexasT]

Is that 30% made up? IDK. Does anyone?

On a house with a 100K assessed value, that's 2K lost. I'd imagine that's made up in direct tax contributions from income and spending from people who would otherwise not buy in the city, or, for those who would move to other neighborhoods, indirectly from savings to the city in serving smaller area. You don't need a study to tell you everything.

And I'm curious as to what services I'm getting that others aren't. Last I heard, DPD did not show up on time when YOBS needed them the four times they were robbed. My neighbors all tell me not to even bother calling DPD. My streets aren't salted. I get the same number of trash pickups per month. I haven't tested DFD yet, but hopefully I won't have to find out.

[poobert]

Not disagreeing that might be possible. Given that many of hte areas were established areas already though... is it that likely? for example, Is that 30% made up? IDK. Does anyone?

Mine is 30%.

Your point is valid. However when you examine the areas, it becomes much less elitist seeming:

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Departme...1/Default.aspx

Phase one are the decidedly more stable areas. Phase two includes essentially any area where houses outnumber vacant lots. So it isn't that egregious.

I mean, Warrendale and Morningside are in there, and they ain't exactly Palmer Woods. I don't even like driving through Morningside!

It is basically an idea of providing incentives for rightsizing before its time. It needs to happen, somehow. NEZ is really the only way a sane, financially-conscious person can justify moving to the city, anyway, given that it it almost [[but doesn't quite) bring your taxes to suburban levels.