Vote YES for regional transit!

[Johnnny5]

It's just not economically and logistically feasible to provide regular bus service to every single exurban community in the tri-county area.

I understand that, but you have to offer a community something in return when asking for a fairly large increase in their property taxes.

Maybe on a daily basis you wouldn't use the regional transit, but what if you wanted to go to a pro sports event downtown and escape the traffic congestion and excessive parking fees downtown? You could park in downtown Pontiac and take the Rapid Bus downtown!

What if you wanted to go check out downtown Ann Arbor or Ypsilanti for a day without putting 90+ miles on your car - you could take the Woodward Rapid Bus to the New Center, and take the commuter train.

What if you needed to get to the Airport to go on a weeklong trip, and wanted to avoid paying the $13/day parking fees in the Big Blue lot? Take the Woodward Rapid Bus downtown and transfer to the Michigan Avenue Rapid Bus, which would take you to the airport.

I live in Milford. Looking at the RTA masterplan you'll see that there were no planned services whatsoever in this area of the county. None of the above scenarios would apply to Milford residents, but due to the higher home values they would be paying 7-8x more towards the RTA than the average resident of Detroit.

[Junjie]

I understand that, but you have to offer a community something in return when asking for a fairly large increase in their property taxes.

The benefit is an economically healthier, more attractive metro region with better prospects for growth and economic mobility. I know that sounds nebulous but it's the truth. It never ceases to amaze me that people who live in the Detroit area, which is viewed worldwide as one of the most shocking human disasters in the developed world, can look around and think, "Yes, the development strategy we have chosen for the past six decades should be continued without change."

I live in Milford. Looking at the RTA masterplan you'll see that there were no planned services whatsoever in this area of the county. None of the above scenarios would apply to Milford residents, but due to the higher home values they would be paying 7-8x more towards the RTA than the average resident of Detroit.

You have chosen to live someplace that by definition cannot be effectively served by transit. People who choose to live downtown and minimize their driving get taxed for roads to every subdevelopment, but they'll never use them. Same thing for you here, except that the RTA's plan would be a huge benefit to the region, whereas roads to far-flung developments are almost a pure drain.

[Bham1982]

You have chosen to live someplace that by definition cannot be effectively served by transit. People who choose to live downtown and minimize their driving get taxed for roads to every subdevelopment, but they'll never use them. Same thing for you here, except that the RTA's plan would be a huge benefit to the region, whereas roads to far-flung developments are almost a pure drain.

New roads in places like Milford are almost always paid for through local user fees, usually for homeowners in new subdivisions. It's not really analagous to asking people in Milford to pay for buses in Detroit.

Would there be a way to pass this at a municipality level? Places like Milford probably don't make sense in terms of regional transit. Maybe draw narrower boundaries, and only ask voters within those boundaries? I think, if workable, it's a reasonable compromise.

[dtowncitylover]

New roads in places like Milford are almost always paid for through local user fees, usually for homeowners in new subdivisions. It's not really analagous to asking people in Milford to pay for buses in Detroit.

Would there be a way to pass this at a municipality level? Places like Milford probably don't make sense in terms of regional transit. Maybe draw narrower boundaries, and only ask voters within those boundaries? I think, if workable, it's a reasonable compromise.

But the opt-out is what makes SMART inefficient already! We can't have everyone picking and choosing what infrastructure they want to give towards. REGIONAL transit helps the REGION not one particular community. As well, the 85% clause was to make sure 85% of funds raised in the county would stay in the county. So what 15% of funds may or may not leave? God forbid we should help other residents out. I'm a metro Detroiter, not an Oakland Countier.

I'm not sure why people thought they weren't going to be served, either. The Master Plan was for routes they deemed important NOW. No one said Milford or Richmond or hell Manchester couldn't have service in the future. The Plan was for improving what was currently underserved and extending it some. It wasn't a final thing, it was a step into greater transit.

There's more to infrastructure than roads. How about the electricity? Water? Gas? We are a rubber band region being stretched and stretched and no plan for when we break.

[GMan]

But the opt-out is what makes SMART inefficient already! We can't have everyone picking and choosing what infrastructure they want to give towards. REGIONAL transit helps the REGION not one particular community. .....

Again I think the problem was the creation of a 20 year tax plan with the transit portion to come at a later date. I think that was a bit over reaching.

[dtowncitylover]

Again I think the problem was the creation of a 20 year tax plan with the transit portion to come at a later date. I think that was a bit over reaching.

How the hell is that overreaching? Do you think transit systems take a day to create or something? The BRT system wasn't going to be completed until when into the 2020s. This isn't the zoo or the DIA, it's huge network that needed time to be implemented!

[GMan]

How the hell is that overreaching? Do you think transit systems take a day to create or something? The BRT system wasn't going to be completed until when into the 2020s. This isn't the zoo or the DIA, it's huge network that needed time to be implemented!

No I don't think it takes a day to create but the the point is they are asking to cement funding for an open ended project without providing any service or proof of concept.
Better to break it down into smaller parts and pick 3 services and ask for 5years of funding. But then what do they do when the money runs out and there is still no product?
How do they ask for more money then?

[GMan]

The benefit is an economically healthier, more attractive metro region with better prospects for growth and economic mobility. .........


You have chosen to live someplace that by definition cannot be effectively served by transit. People who choose to live downtown and minimize their driving get taxed for roads to every subdevelopment, but they'll never use them. Same thing for you here, except that the RTA's plan would be a huge benefit to the region, whereas roads to far-flung developments are almost a pure drain.

I think you just proved his point. Asking the outlying areas to subsidize the metro region with a 20 year tax for a bureaucracy with a "vision" of transit is not a good workable plan.

Yes a vibrant metro area is desirable but hitting outlying areas with a tax on their more expensive homes and then not even throwing them a bone like an express bus to this new "Vibrant Metro Area" that you are hoping to create is project doomed to fail.

[swingline]

I live in Milford. Looking at the RTA masterplan you'll see that there were no planned services whatsoever in this area of the county. None of the above scenarios would apply to Milford residents, but due to the higher home values they would be paying 7-8x more towards the RTA than the average resident of Detroit.

It appears that most Milford voters agreed with Johnny5. Let's see why.

Well, the average family household income in Milford is $78,463. The median home value is $303,500. That means that the homeowner of the median valued Milford home would've paid a RTA transit tax of $182. In other words, 0.23% of that homeowner's entire income would have been extracted from them for something that would be of no benefit. [[We can pretend for the sake of argument that effective mass transit would not increase property values across the region.)

You know, when you look at those stark numbers, you can understand why even a generous, charitable, community-minded Christian taxpayer would balk at the confiscation. $.50/day can add up and could be put to better use gassing up the SUV.