Census Mail Participation Rate

**johnsmith** · March-23-10, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Oh don't be such a smart-ass. Good point though

They threaten you with fines if you don't fill it out truthfully. If they really can fine you under the law, then I am forced to assume that it is a legal document. So I cannot truthfully answer it yet, and they cannot expect me to, until April 2nd. Otherwise it would be perjury with the way the question is written.

**jackie5275** · March-23-10, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

They threaten you with fines if you don't fill it out truthfully. If they really can fine you under the law, then I am forced to assume that it is a legal document. So I cannot truthfully answer it yet, and they cannot expect me to, until April 2nd. Otherwise it would be perjury with the way the question is written.

Is it perjury if you haven't taken an oath? I really don't think the Census Bureau is going to be looking to levy a fine against people who answered with a reasonable answer before April 1st. I think unless you have household members who are pregnant with an imminent due date or in hospice who could die at anytime, for most people, it is "reasonable to assume" whoever you have in your house today will be the same ones there next Thursday. Complete the form, mail it, and get it over with. That's what I did. I don't PSAs from the feds or anyone else nagging me to submit this form.

**johnsmith** · March-23-10, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

Is it perjury if you haven't taken an oath? I really don't think the Census Bureau is going to be looking to levy a fine against people who answered with a reasonable answer before April 1st. I think unless you have household members who are pregnant with an imminent due date or in hospice who could die at anytime, for most people, it is "reasonable to assume" whoever you have in your house today will be the same ones there next Thursday. Complete the form, mail it, and get it over with. That's what I did. I don't PSAs from the feds or anyone else nagging me to submit this form.

I'm just being difficult to be difficult. My line of work requires very specific technical language, and I was just pointing out this little detail. I'm still waiting for April 2nd to give them my household's headcount anyway.

As far as the perjury, I don't think it has to necessarily be an oath. For example, if you read the 1040 form where you have to sign it, on that form, it is a declaration you make "under penalties of perjury."

Now, for the census form, there is no declaration to be made or even a signature required. It's even addressed to "resident", no specific person. How can fines be imposed then? And to whom would they be imposed? Heck, the census even got people's addresses in Ferndale, Oak Park, Gross Pointe among others wrong. People there got forms that were mailed to "Detroit" with the Ferndale, Oak Park, Gross Pointe zip codes. What's up with that? Can they scratch out Detroit and put their true city on there? If you don't, are you lying about your address?

**Johnlodge** · March-23-10, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

People there got forms that were mailed to "Detroit" with the Ferndale, Oak Park, Gross Pointe zip codes. What's up with that? Can they scratch out Detroit and put their true city on there? If you don't, are you lying about your address?

The fact they say Detroit is irrelevant, it was for postal purposes and saved them money. That should make Buyamerican happy. The barcode on the census form tells them where your house is, so they know the correct city. No need to cross anything out.

**johnsmith** · March-23-10, 12:39 PM

Oh yeah, that's right, they GPS'd every one of our front doors. Now all they need to do is have your name, birthdate, race, etc. tied to this information to "determine how many classrooms and hospitals we need." [[per the sappy billboards around town). Yeah right, as if the Federal level decides any of that.

**Hermod** · March-23-10, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

Oh yeah, that's right, they GPS'd every one of our front doors. Now all they need to do is have your name, birthdate, race, etc. tied to this information to "determine how many classrooms and hospitals we need." [[per the sappy billboards around town). Yeah right, as if the Federal level decides any of that.

The federal level does decide how much money they will send you for those purposes based on population count.

The population data are also provided to states, counties, and cities to assist them in allocating resources.

Retroit · March-23-10, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

The federal level does decide how much money they will send you for those purposes based on population count.

The population data are also provided to states, counties, and cities to assist them in allocating resources.

That is supposed to be true, but isn't, unfortunately. Some federal funds are supposed to be distributed based on population, but as a whole, there is a disparity. A lot has to do with the pull of a state's congressmembers in receiving earmarks for their state.

Michigan, for example is considered a "donor state" because it does not receive federal funds in proportion to its population. [[source: http://crcmich.org/PUBLICAT/2000s/2008/rpt348.pdf)

And if you look at federal funds received in proportion to federal taxes paid [[as opposed to population), Michigan is also a "donor state". [[source: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/22685.html)

You'd think with Dingel, Conyers, the Levins, etc., this would be just the opposite, but...

**Johnlodge** · March-23-10, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

Oh yeah, that's right, they GPS'd every one of our front doors. Now all they need to do is have your name, birthdate, race, etc. tied to this information to "determine how many classrooms and hospitals we need." [[per the sappy billboards around town). Yeah right, as if the Federal level decides any of that.

How is GPS any different different than your address? The census is in the Constitution, because representatives at the Federal level are based on population. Get over it. If our grand grandparents could fill it out without handwringing about big brother, I think we can handle it.

**jcole** · March-23-10, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Johnlodge

How is GPS any different different than your address? The census is in the Constitution, because representatives at the Federal level are based on population. Get over it. If our grand grandparents could fill it out without handwringing about big brother, I think we can handle it.

Yep, I looked up my grandparents as far back as the 1860 census and it contained pretty much the same questions it has now. Names, ages, sex, ethnicity, etc. And further than that, it had whether or not each member of the household could read and/or write and if they were handicapped or not.

**jackie5275** · March-23-10, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

As far as the perjury, I don't think it has to necessarily be an oath. For example, if you read the 1040 form where you have to sign it, on that form, it is a declaration you make "under penalties of perjury."

I used to work at the IRS as a Revenue Agent. I know that quote is on the tax forms because if they can take you to court for any kind of tax violation, you will be questioned about your tax return in court on the stand under oath. In that respect, they can nail you for perjury as well as any other tax violations they hit you with.