Can Marriage be repaired after an affair?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "wanted to know why you believe what you believe, and you answered "I don't know"."

No, your question was: "Why did God allow men to corrupt his word?" and I answered: "I don't know" Apparently you do, so lay it on us.

[elganned]

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. That may have been the question you read, but it isn't what I asked. [[Your re-phrasing, by the way, assumes two things: 1) that the Bible is God's word, and 2) that it was later "corrupted". Neither point has actually been established, so this line of reasoning is merely begging the question.)

I very specifically asked why do you think that God, who bothered to speak directly [[your words) to the writers of the Bible and [[presumably) wanted to convey a specific message, didn't bother [[again, presumably) to take a hand in the further/subsequent editting/translating of His message to ensure that it remained clear and understandable.

At which point you got all defensive and huffy and accused me of Christian-baiting.

But if I were to speculate on the answer it could be one of several possible things:
1) God didn't write it [[or direct the writing of it, which is functionally the same thing).
2) God did write it, but changed His mind.
3) God wrote it, but didn't care enough about it to keep it clear and up to date.
4) God wrote it, but never intended it to be taken literally.

And so on, and so on. I'm sure there are several possibilities I haven't thought of at the spur of the moment, but these will do to illustrate the point.

So if you're ready to actually explore what you believe, please answer the question. And "I don't know" is not sufficient. I'm asking you to speculate, to use your reason. "I don't know" merely says that you can't be bothered to take the time to think about it--or that you're afraid to think about it because it will make you uncomfortable.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote" :I very specifically asked why do you think that God, who bothered to speak directly [[your words) to the writers of the Bible and [[presumably) wanted to convey a specific message, didn't bother [[again, presumably) to take a hand in the further/subsequent editting/translating of His message to ensure that it remained clear and understandable."

And I said "I don't know" And neither do you. You're trying to second guess a power a million times smarter than yourself. Put it in perspective, and you'll get a laugh out of it too.

If I had to guess like you're doing, the reason that there is inconsistency, and reason to point finger, is for people like yourself to point finger and doubt the will of God. The Wise and righteous unto themselves. That would put their faith in a few printed pages and not look to God instead.

Just a theory though, I wouldn't claim it as fact.

[elganned]

And I said "I don't know" And neither do you.

Nor did I claim to know. You're putting words in my mouth again, trying to shift the conversation.

You're trying to second guess a power a million times smarter than yourself.

Again, begging the question. We have not yet established that there is a power a million times smarter than myself, nor have we established that I am second guessing such power if it exists.

If I had to guess like you're doing

Yes, that was specifically what I was inviting you to do. FINALLY, you address the question.

the reason that there is inconsistency, and reason to point finger, is for people like yourself

Again an unsupported assumption on your part that I am pointing a finger [[whatever that means).

to point finger and doubt the will of God.

I do not doubt the will of God, I merely doubt whether you know what that will is. Not the same thing at all.

The Wise and righteous unto themselves. That would put their faith in a few printed pages and not look to God instead.

But isn't the Bible just "a few printed pages"? If you object to putting faith in printed pages, why don't you object to putting your faith in the Bible?

Just a theory though, I wouldn't claim it as fact.

Nor would I want you to.

So your theory is that God purposely left the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible so scoffers would have something to scoff at? Is that your position?

[ccbatson]

Sigh...mysticism has no place in a rational debate or discussion...from either side of an argument.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "mysticism has no place in a rational debate or discussion..."

Yes, I know that. Why I kept trying to drop it.

[Lorax]

Sigh...mysticism has no place in a rational debate or discussion...from either side of an argument.

Guess that leaves out the Bible entirely, then.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Guess that leaves out the Bible entirely, then."

Yes, please do.

[Lorax]

Quote: "Guess that leaves out the Bible entirely, then."

Yes, please do.

No problem. No sense dragging a book of 2000 year old Jewish fairy tales into the mix. A very adult approach, Moo.

[ccbatson]

No, it doesn't leave out the bible if you interpret it in context and using rational thought. IOW, the moral of a particular story may be that you should not commit murder, or lie, etc. The Bible is full of that kind of moral homilies that, for the times in which it was written, was profound, and useful. As our society is built on the foundation put down by the Bible, it is relevant and of value today as well...just not to be taken literally.

[elganned]

No, it doesn't leave out the bible if you interpret it in context and using rational thought. IOW, the moral of a particular story may be that you should not commit murder, or lie, etc. The Bible is full of that kind of moral homilies that, for the times in which it was written, was profound, and useful. As our society is built on the foundation put down by the Bible, it is relevant and of value today as well...just not to be taken literally.

Not taking the Bible literaly is certainly a valid position and one which many Christians take. The danger it poses for the fundamentalist is that it leaves everything open to interpretation, with the inevitable proliferation of differences of opinion over what this passage means or that passage means, whether this is significant or that is merely tangental.

If you accept that there is only one path to salvation, then it is incumbent on the believer to get it right, and differing interpretations leaves one open to the danger of adhering to one that proves to be wrong--which you won't discover until it's too late.

If you accept that there are many different paths to salvation...well, there's really no point in being a Christian as opposed to a follower of Shinto or one of the Cargo Cults of Polynesia.

It's a conundrum.

[elganned]

Sigh...mysticism has no place in a rational debate or discussion...from either side of an argument.

...unless the views formed by one's mystical beliefs informs one's position regarding the issues. Which it does for many people.

Therefore a dialogue about the roots of someone's mystical beliefs can be instructive.

[ccbatson]

Mystical beliefs cannot be a basis for rational conclusions.

[Blarf]

Marriage is such an outdated tradition. The only real benefits are the tax breaks and civil union benefits. With the divorce rate so high, it's not even worth it.

[ccbatson]

Those are the least useful reasons for marriage Blarf.

[elganned]

Mystical beliefs cannot be a basis for rational conclusions.

Perhaps not as part of the process of rational thought, but mystical beliefs as fundamental motiviators certainly inform the rational process as premises.

In other words, you can form a rational conclusion about the mystical beliefs without using them in the process of discussion.

One cannot simply dismiss mystical belief as irrelevent because empirical evidence shows that many, if not most, of the population forms their opinion based upon what is both unexamined and unsupported.

[elganned]

Those are the least useful reasons for marriage Blarf.

So what would you classify as a "useful reason" for marriage? Or do you think there are any?

[Blarf]

Those are the least useful reasons for marriage Blarf.

I don't know, I can't think any other reasons to get married. Paying all that money and going to all that planning crap seems like a waste.

Though open bar receptions are always a blast, so at least the party is fun.

[ccbatson]

The reception is also trivial. The value is to enter a committed relationship where common values are pursued, very often including having children. Of course, not every moment is blissful [[if it is, something is very wrong), but having a soulmate with whom you share mutual love and respect is one of the most rewarding accomplishments possible in this life.

[Blarf]

but having a soulmate with whom you share mutual love and respect is one of the most rewarding accomplishments possible in this life.

True, but you don't need to get "married" for that.

Judging from the high divorce rate, it doesn't seem like many people are really finding their souldmates anyways. I know several people going through divorces and there is so much legal crap they are going though I can't help but wonder why they got married in the first place.

[Lorax]

No, it doesn't leave out the bible if you interpret it in context and using rational thought. IOW, the moral of a particular story may be that you should not commit murder, or lie, etc. The Bible is full of that kind of moral homilies that, for the times in which it was written, was profound, and useful. As our society is built on the foundation put down by the Bible, it is relevant and of value today as well...just not to be taken literally.

And how does one rationalize virgin births and talking snakes? How about resurrections? Need I go on?

[elganned]

Lorax, I think your knee-jerk opposition to anything Bats says has clouded your judgement in this instance. His position is essentially the same as yours: One cannot reach rational conclusions based upon mythology and mysticism.

[Papasito]

Trust is the foundation of a relationship.
Without a foundation, anything built will surely fall.

[PCE]

The reception is also trivial. The value is to enter a committed relationship where common values are pursued, very often including having children. Of course, not every moment is blissful [[if it is, something is very wrong), but having a soulmate with whom you share mutual love and respect is one of the most rewarding accomplishments possible in this life.

Great post. Those who have found a soulmate are truly blessed.

[ccbatson]

Elganned, a good message that should be applied by all [[including you).