Why aren't the right-wing talking heads denouncing emergency care as "socialist"?

[MCP-001]

The "link" should be labeled the "missing link" since it has nothing to do with this thread, or paying for services rendered.

It's the British version of the National Inquirer- great sourcing, sure to win a Pulitzer.

Not paying for services???

A country with a single payer system turning away expetant mothers because of a "lack of space".

You're kidding, right?

[elganned]

Not paying for services???

A country with a single payer system turning away expetant mothers because of a "lack of space".

You're kidding, right?

Did you bother to read your own link?
They were turned away for lack of available beds, not because they could not pay. My question specifically asked about ability to pay, not whether beds were available.

[Lorax]

Not paying for services???

A country with a single payer system turning away expetant mothers because of a "lack of space".

You're kidding, right?

Read it Waldo,

Nowhere does it say they couldn't "pay".

Lack of space was the issue- guess the for-profit private hospital corporations need to bump up the space a little.

[MCP-001]

Try that these people had already paid for a service and were turned away.

Isn't single payer wonderful.

[gibran]

Does one not think that in a system that is going to be designed at this point in time we will take into account the "good and the bad" from other systems and countries? We are getting lost in details and fears when the system has not even been designed...if we know what doesn't work do es one think we are going to adopt worse practices?

If we only had three MRI's in Detroit than we would be similar to like sized facilities in Toronto..but we have an infrastructure already in place. What we doing is trying to find a way to cover everyone...we are falling for gimmicks and scare tactics..[[yes a lot is being rushed to soon into this bill). However, Let's not forget the real issues: we need affordable health care and accessibility for all Americans and the workers here...we can't have people dying to sacrificing quality of life here...When you the pursuit of life, liberty and justice you have to be alive or even well to do so...

[Lorax]

Again, it has nothing to do with a single payer system, but reading wasn't your strong suit.

[ccbatson]

If they aren't, they should be.

There is a small [[very) place for a safety net [[locally and voluntarily funded) for temporary provisions to those suffering unexpected injury or illness who do not have the resources to pay for it [[including doing so on the basis of a financing program).

Guess what...it already exists.

[elganned]

Try that these people had already paid for a service and were turned away.

Isn't single payer wonderful.

Would you consider the situation to be different if they had paid 5 year's worth of monthly health insurance premiums and then been turned away when it came time to give birth because the hospital was full?

[ccbatson]

They would be "turned away" with the provisions of another nearby facility to take care of them. Remember, our nation has a large over supply of licensed hospital beds [[unlike other countries).

[elganned]

If they aren't, they should be.

There is a small [[very) place for a safety net [[locally and voluntarily funded) for temporary provisions to those suffering unexpected injury or illness who do not have the resources to pay for it [[including doing so on the basis of a financing program).

Guess what...it already exists.

So I take it you oppose universal emergency service access regardless of ability to pay?

[elganned]

They would be "turned away" with the provisions of another nearby facility to take care of them. Remember, our nation has a large over supply of licensed hospital beds [[unlike other countries).

Have you ever been to the UP, bats?

[ccbatson]

Supply and DEMAND...the UP is under populated, low demand.

[elganned]

Also, as I remember reading the article, none of the women cited were left by the side of the road. The vast majority of them gave birth in emergency rooms, on hospital wards, or in other health care facilities. And the one in the lift was delivered in the middle of transfer.

In a "pay as you go" system, you would not be admitted to the health care facility at all.

[rb336]

Just click on the link [[it's highlighted in my post above).

Or, just click here.

Pretty nasty stuff.

Kinda of makes you look forward to the single payer system that Pres. B.O. wants to cram down America's throat...and shudder as to why people are so clueless as to why there is opposition to it.

Fact is, every health system has its problems. fact remains, for every "horror story" the right can dredge up about single-payer systems, I can come up with ten worse from our system

from your source:
Jon Skewes, a director at the Royal College of Midwives, said: 'The rise in the number of births in other than a designated labour bed is a concern. We would want to see the detail behind these figures to look at why this is happening.
'There is no doubt that maternity services are stretched, and that midwives are working harder and harder to provide good quality care. However, we know the Government is putting more money into the service.
'The key now is to make sure this money is spent by the people controlling the purse strings at a local level.'
Care services minister Phil Hope said: 'The number of maternity beds in the NHS reflects the number of women wanting to give birth in hospital. Giving birth can be unpredictableand it is difficult to plan for the exact time and place of every birth.
'Local health services have plans to ensure high quality, personal care with greater choice over place of birth and care provided by a named midwife.
'We recognise that some parts of the country face particular challenges due to the rising birth rate and that is why last year we pledged to increase funding for maternity by £330million over three years.
'We now have more maternity staff than ever before and we have already met our target to recruit 1,000 extra midwives by September.'

yes, they are actually addressing the problem, not calling out the people who brought up the problem as un-british

[ccbatson]

Sure you would, you would merely **Gasp** get a bill later.

Do I mean that individuals would be responsible for themselves? In the USA? Remember that not that long ago, we were a free people.

[elganned]

Supply and DEMAND...the UP is under populated, low demand.

Irrelevent.
The question under discussion is not the presence or absence of health facilities and why that is so.
The question is: Is universal access to emergency services socialism or is it not?
If it is, why aren't the right-wing pundits railing against it?

[elganned]

Sure you would, you would merely **Gasp** get a bill later.

And that doesn't happen now?

Remember that not that long ago, we were a free people.

I still am. Sorry to hear about you. Hope it gets better.

[ccbatson]

Of course it isn't, only if said services are control [[the means of production) by government is it socialistic. If Private interests were allowed/unfettered to open hospitals on every corner because it was profitable to do so and service was available to every individual [[for a price), that would be universal access under capitalism.

BTW, that is exactly what would happen under a free market health care system. Why? Opportunity to make a profit providing a good or service is the incentive to start and operate said businesses, if profitable, there would never be a shortage of providers.

[Lorax]

Problem with your utopian view of the world, is that Rethuglicans love monopolies, and they are allowed to exist in just about every arena of so-called "free enterprise."

This would prohibit any new start ups from providing a new or better medical product, and in turn bring down prices.

Competition only works when the Rethuglican governments in control disallow monopolies.

The Tushies let the good times roll for so long, that there is no going back- the system will, through it's own greed and corruption, have to wash out and start over, hopefully as a single payer system.

[elganned]

But returning to my question:
Are you not sent a bill for services after availing yourself of emergency room services? If I go to the emergency room for, say, a broken ankle/fibula, doesn't the hospital send me--or someone--a bill afterwards?

[Papasito]

If you have no money, and say, for example, you get pregnant, you qualify for Medicaid, and it pays for everything. There are already systems in place that can take care of the poor. The government should make these systems work and work properly before jumping into another massive program that is sure to become a disaster, just like everything else they touch.

[rb336]

If you have no money, and say, for example, you get pregnant, you qualify for Medicaid, and it pays for everything. There are already systems in place that can take care of the poor. The government should make these systems work and work properly before jumping into another massive program that is sure to become a disaster, just like everything else they touch.

the problem isn't with the extremely poor, it is the working class that can't qualify for medicaid that get screwed. it is the working and middle classes who pay through the nose for health insurance they can't use because of sky-high deductables and end up bankrupt if they need a procedure. it is all of us who have seen 20% annual increases in premiums, not to mention increases in copays.

The current health insurance system is little more than a legal scam

[MCP-001]

...

The current health insurance system is little more than a legal scam

Most people don't disagree with that.

Unfortunately, when pressed by a constitutient, Howard Dean himself explained why the authors of HR 3200 choose to address the areas that they did.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=Gd8zprIrSU

This needs to be seen to be believed.

[elganned]

So you're position is that emergency services shouldn't be accessible to all, only to those who can afford to pay for them?

[elganned]

If you have no money, and say, for example, you get pregnant, you qualify for Medicaid, and it pays for everything.

But doesn't the right classify Medicaid as "socialism"? I thought that's what you opposed, was "socialism"?